From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 1 08:05:34 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA10367 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:05:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA10358 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esinet1.esinet.net(208.197.151.2) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma010354; Tue, 1 Jul 97 08:04:12 -0400 Received: from onsite1 (dialin34.max4048.esinet.net [208.197.151.161]) by esinet1.esinet.net (8.8.6/ESI-8.8.X-A) with ESMTP id IAA14834; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:13:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707011213.IAA14834@esinet1.esinet.net> From: "Arvin Meyer" To: "Michael R. McClelland" Cc: "DES" Subject: Re: Arms traffik Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:13:05 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1160 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk We're still here ... but nothin' much is going on. Let's stay in touch. There is a new RC5 project competing with Bovine in Finland. http://www.rc5.cyberian.org I haven't decided IF or WHICH I'll join yet. Seems like a lot of bikering and mistrust at Bovine ...not at all like the comraderie here at Deschall. Arvin Meyer On-Site Solutions "Developing results-oriented databases for companies that demand a tangible return on investment." e-mail: onsite@esinet.net phone: (804) 973-9140 http://www.esinet.net/cabg/consult/onsite.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > From: Michael R. McClelland > To: Deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com; Will Koffel > Subject: Re: Arms traffik > Date: Monday, June 30, 1997 7:35 PM > > I thought the list had shut down. I think everyone is on vacation. Two > other lists I'm on went dead and I thought my ISP was screwed up again. > This group is about finished unless you want a T-shirt. RC5 and beyond. > Sincerely, Mike McClelland > From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 1 10:43:01 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA12110 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 10:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA12099 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 10:42:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail-oak-2.pilot.net(198.232.147.17) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma012093; Tue, 1 Jul 97 10:41:39 -0400 Received: from alchpns1.dialcall.com (unknown-2-9.dialcall.com [170.206.2.9]) by mail-oak-2.pilot.net with SMTP id HAA02313 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 07:50:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccmail.nextel.com by alchpns1.dialcall.com (8.6.10/1.34) id KAA22574; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 10:47:03 -0400 Received: from ccMail by ccmail.nextel.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 0000EA16; Tue, 1 Jul 97 10:46:58 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 10:48:13 -0400 Message-ID: <0000EA16.@nextel.com> From: Albert.Garrido@nextel.com (Albert Garrido) Subject: RE: Arms traffik Cc: "DES" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk [snip] Yeppers, there's a lot of that, along with lots of ranting and raving and commentary about it being an open list. ---------- From: "Arvin Meyer" [:] Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 1997 8:13 AM To: "Michael R. McClelland" Cc: "DES" Subject: Re: Arms traffik I haven't decided IF or WHICH I'll join yet. Seems like a lot of bikering and mistrust at Bovine ...not at all like the comraderie here at Deschall. Arvin Meyer On-Site Solutions "Developing results-oriented databases for companies that demand a tangible return on investment." e-mail: onsite@esinet.net phone: (804) 973-9140 http://www.esinet.net/cabg/consult/onsite.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > From: Michael R. McClelland > To: Deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com; Will Koffel > Subject: Re: Arms traffik > Date: Monday, June 30, 1997 7:35 PM > > I thought the list had shut down. I think everyone is on vacation. Two > other lists I'm on went dead and I thought my ISP was screwed up again. > This group is about finished unless you want a T-shirt. RC5 and beyond. > Sincerely, Mike McClelland > From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 1 12:16:46 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id MAA12892 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:16:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id MAA12865 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:15:30 -0400 (EDT) From: bennett_t1@popmail.firn.edu Received: from wizard.firn.edu(150.176.240.99) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma012845; Tue, 1 Jul 97 12:14:31 -0400 Received: from FIRN.firn.edu (JKVAS1-20.firn.edu) by WIZARD.FIRN.EDU (PMDF V5.1-6 #19056) with ESMTP id <01IKQ0N2L6JU000G4B@WIZARD.FIRN.EDU> for deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:27:30 EDT Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 12:18:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Arms traffik To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Reply-to: bennett_t1@popmail.firn.edu Message-id: <33B93BDD.777D8AAF@popmail.firn.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199707011213.IAA14834@esinet1.esinet.net> Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Arvin Meyer wrote: > We're still here ... but nothin' much is going on. Let's stay in > touch. > > There is a new RC5 project competing with Bovine in Finland. > http://www.rc5.cyberian.org > > I haven't decided IF or WHICH I'll join yet. Seems like a lot of > bikering > and mistrust at Bovine ...not at all like the comraderie here at > Deschall. I started a Platform War on RC5 list that got me a killfile from one person :-). > Arvin Meyer > > On-Site Solutions > > "Developing results-oriented databases for companies > that demand a tangible return on investment." > > e-mail: onsite@esinet.net > phone: (804) 973-9140 > http://www.esinet.net/cabg/consult/onsite.html > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > From: Michael R. McClelland > > To: Deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com; Will Koffel > > Subject: Re: Arms traffik > > Date: Monday, June 30, 1997 7:35 PM > > > > I thought the list had shut down. I think everyone is on vacation. > Two > > other lists I'm on went dead and I thought my ISP was screwed up > again. > > This group is about finished unless you want a T-shirt. RC5 and > beyond. > > Sincerely, Mike McClelland > > From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 1 15:46:51 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id PAA14716 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:46:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id PAA14684; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:44:47 -0400 (EDT) From: CCCRE.CCULL@capital.ge.com Received: from ns.ge.com(192.35.39.24) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma014675; Tue, 1 Jul 97 15:44:11 -0400 Received: from thomas.ge.com (thomas.ge.com [3.47.28.21]) by ns.ge.com (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA00118; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:53:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CAPITAL.GE.COM ([3.113.164.135]) by thomas.ge.com (8.8.4/8.7.5) with SMTP id PAA17497; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:52:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by CAPITAL.GE.COM (Soft-Switch LMS 2.0) with snapi via CCCREGWY id 0013800001503479; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:50:03 -0400 To: " - (052)owner-deschall-announce(a)gatekeeper.mega" , " - (052)deschall(a)gatekeeper.megasoft.com" Subject: Re[2]: Arms traffik Message-ID: <0013800001503479000002L092*@MHS> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:50:03 -0400 Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk >I started a Platform War on RC5 list that got me a killfile from one person >:-). ok...i give up. what's a "killfile"????? chris cull cccre.ccull@capital.ge.com From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 1 16:32:25 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA15156 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 16:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA15150 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 16:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maverick.isdn.uiuc.edu(192.17.18.51) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma015146; Tue, 1 Jul 97 16:31:07 -0400 Received: (from dterrell@localhost) by maverick.isdn.uiuc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) id PAA17942; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:40:58 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19970701154057.51935@maverick.isdn.uiuc.edu> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:40:57 -0500 From: David Terrell To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Arms traffik Reply-To: dterrell@uiuc.edu References: <199707011213.IAA14834@esinet1.esinet.net> <33B93BDD.777D8AAF@popmail.firn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.76 In-Reply-To: <33B93BDD.777D8AAF@popmail.firn.edu>; from bennett_t1@popmail.firn.edu on Tue, Jul 01, 1997 at 12:18:23PM -0500 Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, Jul 01, 1997 at 12:18:23PM -0500, bennett_t1@popmail.firn.edu wrote: > I started a Platform War on RC5 list that got me a killfile from one > person :-). You sound surprised. Actually the os wars were one of the most annoying things to happen on the list. Also annoying is the fact that it happens everywhere else. It's such a silly thing really. It's 3/5 personal preference, 1/5 needs and 1/5 administrative pressure. Most of which aren't worth changing. I mean sure, you can rant about how good MacOS is versus HPUX, but WHO REALLY CARES? Those who know don't care -- they have better things to do with their time. Those who don't know argue stupidly. Please, don't do this. I'm not even subscribing to the rc5 list; heck, I'm not even going to participate, because it's just too much damned work to wade the through the crap. Lists of this type need a moderator with a big stick IMHO. -- Dave Terrell dterrell@uiuc.edu finger dterrell@uiuc.edu for pgp key From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 1 17:10:37 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA15525 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 17:10:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA15501 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 17:09:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.earthlink.net(207.217.91.200) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma015451; Tue, 1 Jul 97 17:08:03 -0400 Received: from styx ([207.217.92.240]) by mercury.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA00694; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 14:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707012116.OAA00694@mercury.earthlink.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Brian Murphy" Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc. To: "Michael R. McClelland" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 14:15:02 -8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Arms traffik Reply-to: brianm@earthlink.net CC: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com In-reply-to: <199706302339.SAA00805@kelly.iaonline.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Whats up with those T-shirts anyway? Has anything been finalized? Where do I go to order one if I can? > From: "Michael R. McClelland" > To: , "Will Koffel" > Subject: Re: Arms traffik > Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:35:25 -0500 > I thought the list had shut down. I think everyone is on vacation. > Two other lists I'm on went dead and I thought my ISP was screwed up > again. This group is about finished unless you want a T-shirt. RC5 > and beyond. > Sincerely, Mike McClelland > > ---------- > > From: Will Koffel > > To: Deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com > > Subject: Arms traffik > > Date: Monday, June 30, 1997 12:22 PM > > > > If you all haven't seen this yet, check out > > > > http://online.offshore.com.ai/arms-trafficker/ > > > > It's sort of funny I think. Not the sentiment, but the implimentation. > > > > Also, I haven't gotten any mail from this list in a few days. Is > everyone > > still out there? What happened? TCSHirts still in progress. Maybe > > everyone is hard at work on designs. That must be it. Well, I'll keep > the > > list active, and wait for your artistic brain-children to appear on the > > web. Thanks. > > > > Will Koffel. > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________ > > Will Koffel Course 21M > > (617) 225-6418 ~*_*~ > > wkoffel@mit.edu Course 6 > > MIT '00 http://web.mit.edu/wkoffel/www > > ------------------------------------------- > > > Brian Murphy Network Engineer Earthlink Network, Inc. brianm@earthlink.net From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 1 19:21:18 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA16301 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 19:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA16295 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 19:20:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brickbat8.mindspring.com(207.69.200.11) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma016290; Tue, 1 Jul 97 19:19:58 -0400 Received: from [209.86.12.4] (user-38lc304.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.12.4]) by brickbat8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA06189 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 19:28:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: dakidd@pop.mindspring.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <33B93BDD.777D8AAF@popmail.firn.edu> References: <199707011213.IAA14834@esinet1.esinet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 19:30:33 -0400 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: Dakidd Subject: Re: Arms traffik Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk bennett_t1@popmail.firn.edu wrote: >Arvin Meyer wrote: > >> We're still here ... but nothin' much is going on. Let's stay in >> touch. >> >> There is a new RC5 project competing with Bovine in Finland. >> http://www.rc5.cyberian.org >> >> I haven't decided IF or WHICH I'll join yet. Seems like a lot of >> bikering >> and mistrust at Bovine ...not at all like the comraderie here at >> Deschall. > >I started a Platform War on RC5 list that got me a killfile from one >person :-). Oh boy. What an excellent example of a constructive thing to do. I bet your mom is proud of you, huh? Heck, I'M proud of you! I think I'll nominate you for some sort of medal. Bozo of the Week sounds like a good starting place. And they say that the internet population as a whole is geting brighter... Dakidd@mindspring.com +------------------------------+ +---------------------------------+ |Do you ever get the feel that | |I will choose a path that's clear| |the story's too damn real and | |I will choose free will -Rush | |in the present tense? -J. Tull| +---------------------------------+ +------------------------------+ From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 1 21:18:44 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id VAA16781 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:18:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id VAA16764 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:17:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esinet1.esinet.net(208.197.151.2) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma016754; Tue, 1 Jul 97 21:17:05 -0400 Received: from onsite1 (dialin46.max4048.esinet.net [208.197.151.173]) by esinet1.esinet.net (8.8.6/ESI-8.8.X-A) with ESMTP id VAA10972; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:26:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707020126.VAA10972@esinet1.esinet.net> From: "Arvin Meyer" To: "Dakidd" Cc: "DES" Subject: Re: Arms traffik Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:26:01 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1160 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk >From your snipping, it looks like I started the Platform war. Nope, not me. Read again - carefully! Arvin Meyer onsite@esinet.net ---------- > From: Dakidd > To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com > Subject: Re: Arms traffik > Date: Tuesday, July 01, 1997 7:30 PM > > bennett_t1@popmail.firn.edu wrote: > > >Arvin Meyer wrote: > > > >> We're still here ... but nothin' much is going on. Let's stay in > >> touch. > >> > >> There is a new RC5 project competing with Bovine in Finland. > >> http://www.rc5.cyberian.org > >> > >> I haven't decided IF or WHICH I'll join yet. Seems like a lot of > >> bikering > >> and mistrust at Bovine ...not at all like the comraderie here at > >> Deschall. > > > >I started a Platform War on RC5 list that got me a killfile from one > >person :-). > > Oh boy. What an excellent example of a constructive thing to do. I bet your > mom is proud of you, huh? > > Heck, I'M proud of you! I think I'll nominate you for some sort of medal. > > Bozo of the Week sounds like a good starting place. > > And they say that the internet population as a whole is geting > brighter... > > > Dakidd@mindspring.com +------------------------------+ > +---------------------------------+ |Do you ever get the feel that | > |I will choose a path that's clear| |the story's too damn real and | > |I will choose free will -Rush | |in the present tense? -J. Tull| > +---------------------------------+ +------------------------------+ > From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 1 21:25:45 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id VAA16806 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:25:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id VAA16797 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from friley72-temp.res.iastate.edu(129.186.78.72) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma016795; Tue, 1 Jul 97 21:24:29 -0400 Received: from localhost (vorlon@localhost) by cozad.dodds.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA08497 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:33:27 -0500 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:33:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Langasek To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Arms traffik In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 1 Jul 1997, Dakidd wrote: > And they say that the internet population as a whole is geting > brighter... And who's been spreading THOSE lies? First I've heard about such a phenomenon... While the Internet may be having a positive effect on the brains of the uninitiated, the new users aren't giving the Net anything but grief... -Steve Langasek -doink- From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 1 21:50:55 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id VAA16912 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:50:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id VAA16903 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:50:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.orst.edu(128.193.4.4) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma016898; Tue, 1 Jul 97 21:49:29 -0400 Received: from mist ([205.152.250.48]) by mail.orst.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA14882 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 18:58:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970701185815.00941ba0@128.193.4.5> X-Sender: changk@128.193.4.5 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 18:58:15 -0700 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: Keith Chang Subject: Re: Arms traffik In-Reply-To: <19970701154057.51935@maverick.isdn.uiuc.edu> References: <33B93BDD.777D8AAF@popmail.firn.edu> <199707011213.IAA14834@esinet1.esinet.net> <33B93BDD.777D8AAF@popmail.firn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Dave Terrell wrote: >Please, don't do this. I'm not even subscribing to the rc5 list; heck, >I'm not even going to participate, because it's just too much damned >work to wade the through the crap. Lists of this type need a moderator >with a big stick IMHO. I wish the RC5 group had something like the deschall-announce list that was going here. Cut out all the junk and give the significant stuff, like stat milestones, new versions and bug workarounds. -Keith From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 1 23:54:13 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA17186 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 23:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA17179 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 23:53:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown(204.252.20.9) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma017177; Tue, 1 Jul 97 23:52:37 -0400 Received: (from sigma@localhost) by ishmael.nmh.northfield.ma.us (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA07534; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 00:04:51 -0400 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 00:04:51 -0400 From: "Seth D. Schoen" Message-Id: <199707020404.AAA07534@ishmael.nmh.northfield.ma.us> To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com, onsite@esinet.net Subject: Re: Arms traffik Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Arvin Meyer writes of > bickering and mistrust at Bovine ... not at all like the comraderie > here at Deschall. I agree. Although I'm an enthusiastic and continuing supporter of Bovine RC5, promote it in my web page, and discuss it with others, I am surprised at the relative disorganization. They have not kept open source code (or not exactly -- the subject of a long technical discussion as well as some misinformation), which had originally seemed like one of the major differences. Bovine RC5 is a good thing, and the existence of distributed.net wonderful, but I would certainly more readily have joined an RC5 cracking effort (or any distributed computing effort) co-ordinated by Rocke. I almost wish that you had gone ahead and started a successor to DESCHALL, Rocke, although I know you have other things to do. It's strange to see the Bovine mailing list with - longtime Bovine veterans - DESCHALL veterans - SolNet veterans - entirely new users - people who wish they were a part of the development effort all of whom have (understandably) extremely different perspectives on the project, and even, perhaps, somewhat different loyalties. It unfortunately does, to date, lack the same cohesion and sense of unity which DESCHALL enjoyed and which I miss. But Bovine RC5 is also a very noble effort. -- Nothing is more dangerous for man's private morality than the habit of commanding. The best man, the most intelligent, disinterested, generous, pure, will infallibly and always be spoiled at this trade. -- Mikhail A. Bakunin (thanks to Rabbi Albert Axelrad) From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 00:43:00 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA17567 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 00:43:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA17558 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 00:42:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from watcher.rh1.iit.edu(198.37.25.242) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma017554; Wed, 2 Jul 97 00:41:38 -0400 Received: from localhost (beberg@localhost) by watcher.highlander.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA08966; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:51:16 -0500 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:51:16 -0500 (CDT) From: "Adam L. Beberg" X-Sender: beberg@watcher.highlander.org To: Keith Chang cc: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Arms traffik In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970701185815.00941ba0@128.193.4.5> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 1 Jul 1997, Keith Chang wrote: > I wish the RC5 group had something like the deschall-announce list that was > going here. Cut out all the junk and give the significant stuff, like stat > milestones, new versions and bug workarounds. Actually, we do. Have for some time now. - Adam L. Beberg beberg@distributed.net distributed.net coordinator http://www.iit.edu/~beberg/ From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 01:08:36 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id BAA17678 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 01:08:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id BAA17671 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 01:07:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.jfku.edu(204.161.52.10) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma017662; Wed, 2 Jul 97 01:07:08 -0400 Received: by jfku.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA04386; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:16:02 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:16:02 -0700 Message-Id: <9707020516.AA04386@jfku.edu> To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Arms traffik In-Reply-To: Mail from '"Seth D. Schoen" ' dated: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 00:04:51 -0400 From: "Karl J. Runge" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk I just wish DESCHALL had to go to 50% of the keyspace instead of 25% !!! (and still have DESCHALL win!) Hats off to Rocke for a great project! I really admired his KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid!) philosophy that paid off so well, and made things so enjoyable and error free. I don't know if many on this list knew that Rocke managed the whole key service thru a 28.8 ppp connection, but he did. And for the bulk of the contest did it on with 486, and only at the end upgraded to a pentium. These facts still amaze me! In a certain sense, 2^56 keys is "trivial". Cheers, Karl, On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, "Seth D. Schoen" wrote: > Arvin Meyer writes of > > bickering and mistrust at Bovine ... not at all like the comraderie > > here at Deschall. > > I agree. Although I'm an enthusiastic and continuing supporter of > Bovine RC5, promote it in my web page, and discuss it with others, I am > surprised at the relative disorganization. They have not kept open > source code (or not exactly -- the subject of a long technical > discussion as well as some misinformation), which had originally seemed > like one of the major differences. > > Bovine RC5 is a good thing, and the existence of distributed.net > wonderful, but I would certainly more readily have joined an RC5 > cracking effort (or any distributed computing effort) co-ordinated by > Rocke. I almost wish that you had gone ahead and started a successor > to DESCHALL, Rocke, although I know you have other things to do. > > It's strange to see the Bovine mailing list with > > - longtime Bovine veterans > - DESCHALL veterans > - SolNet veterans > - entirely new users > - people who wish they were a part of the development effort > > all of whom have (understandably) extremely different perspectives on > the project, and even, perhaps, somewhat different loyalties. > > It unfortunately does, to date, lack the same cohesion and sense of > unity which DESCHALL enjoyed and which I miss. But Bovine RC5 is also > a very noble effort. From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 05:59:38 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id FAA18515 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 05:59:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id FAA18509 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 05:58:57 -0400 (EDT) From: techs@obfuscation.org Received: from unknown(208.209.25.230) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma018507; Wed, 2 Jul 97 05:58:11 -0400 Received: (qmail 4967 invoked from network); 2 Jul 1997 09:04:22 -0000 Received: from idoru.obfuscation.org (qmailr@208.209.25.239) by gomi.obfuscation.org with SMTP; 2 Jul 1997 09:04:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 3387 invoked by uid 10); 2 Jul 1997 10:07:07 -0000 Message-ID: <19970702100707.3386.qmail@idoru.obfuscation.org> Subject: Re: Arms traffik To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 06:07:07 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: techs@obfuscation.org Organization: little tiny brain pan full of baked apricots, inc. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 PGP3 *ALPHA*] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk > I just wish DESCHALL had to go to 50% of the keyspace instead of 25% !!! > (and still have DESCHALL win!) IMHO, 25% is a nicer number to be tossed around in the media.. Crypto-Clueless people (read: most everyone) won't know the Monty Hall Problem (tm) of searching a large keyspace and will make assumptions just like many of the people on the DESCHALL list did about "how to search the keyspace" and think that Rocke et al. found the One True Way to find keys in a hurry (which isn't entirely wrong.. throw an insane amount of hardware at the problem.. but i digress..) > Hats off to Rocke for a great project! I really admired his KISS > (Keep It Simple, Stupid!) philosophy that paid off so well, and made > things so enjoyable and error free. Its funny.. I didn't quite appreciate just how much effort Rocke put into making it enjoyable and error free until i started working on Bovine.. I'd been on the DES Violation team for its short lifespan and chalked up all it's problems to mismanagement and DESCHALL just seemed like the Right Way. Bovine has the same problems as DES Violation had, only theres no competition to run them out of business.. > On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, "Seth D. Schoen" wrote: > > I agree. Although I'm an enthusiastic and continuing supporter of > > Bovine RC5, promote it in my web page, and discuss it with others, I am > > surprised at the relative disorganization. They have not kept open > > source code (or not exactly -- the subject of a long technical > > discussion as well as some misinformation), which had originally seemed > > like one of the major differences. > > > > It's strange to see the Bovine mailing list with > > > > - longtime Bovine veterans > > - DESCHALL veterans > > - SolNet veterans > > - entirely new users > > - people who wish they were a part of the development effort > > > > all of whom have (understandably) extremely different perspectives on > > > the project, and even, perhaps, somewhat different loyalties. > > > > It unfortunately does, to date, lack the same cohesion and sense of > > unity which DESCHALL enjoyed and which I miss. But Bovine RC5 is also > > a very noble effort. Its a noble effort, i won't argue that, but i will whine a little and point out my problems with Bovine on the off chance that the coordinators solve the "problem" down the road.... The Mailing List: The mailing list is an accurate picture of the team as a whole, IMHO, and DESCHALL was a single minded force, while Bovine is a fractured group of political infighting and babble. DESCHALL e-mail was a status update on The Cause (tm) when it came into my mailbox.... Bovine e-mail is like reading UseNet with all it's various me-toos, flames, bickering, personal differences, and hidden agendas. I dropped the list before the v2 clients came out. The Clients: The selection of clients shows (to me, anyway) an incredible bias toward platform selection. If you dont have a system that you ran out and bought at ComputerLand, dont bother showing up. Intel is everywhere. PPC's get a token mention if you run MkLinux, and Solaris 5.x (presumably because they're the unix workstation for cheap in the business world). There are no SparcLinux, AlphaLinux, SunOS 4.1.x, NeXT, Mac68k, HP, AIX (although this runs on PPC hardware), IRIX, DECUnix, etc... etc... clients in the new V2 selection.. To my untrained eye, this means that Bovine wasn't able to come up with sufficently talented developers to optimize the clients for any particular platform, and it gives the appearance of not caring what you're running the client on as long as it's Intel. ("any color you want, as long as it's black"). They disdain the use of V1 clients for efficency reasons and the fear of Trojan Horses and Rogue clients using the v1 protocol to screw the effort up, but they dont go out of their way to REPLACE the entirity of the V1 client set with the new clients. Obvious where their loyalties are. So my piddling amount of CPU in mostly non-intel flavor is sitting around idle.. the Feeling is gone. thanks. DESCHALL made a difference and gave at least me the hope for a greater future of distributed computing and cameraderie. Bovine crushes all that under the immense weight of babble, bickering, and poor support for the people who donate cpu time. I've said my peace.... Dont reply unless you absolutely have to, theres no real reason to start a big thread over it.. -- (emf:erik fichtner:techs:discursive melancholia) "It's true. No man is an island. But if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a pretty good raft."- Red Meat http://www.obfuscation.org/~techs N 39 10.409' W 77 11.750' From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 05:50:43 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id FAA18490 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 05:50:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id FAA18481 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 05:49:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brickbat8.mindspring.com(207.69.200.11) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma018477; Wed, 2 Jul 97 05:49:22 -0400 Received: from [209.86.12.59] (user-38lc31r.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.12.59]) by brickbat8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA09222; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 05:58:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: dakidd@pop.mindspring.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199707020126.VAA10972@esinet1.esinet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:03:50 -0400 To: "Arvin Meyer" From: Dakidd Subject: Re: Arms traffik Cc: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Arvin Meyer wrote: >>From your snipping, it looks like I started the Platform war. Nope, not me. > >Read again - carefully! I was attempting to be careful with the snipping. It was clear enough to me that it wasn't you that was gloating about doing something as incredibly stupid as starting a platform war, but rather, this "bennett_t1" creature. Sorry for the misunderstanding caused by my snipping. > >Arvin Meyer >onsite@esinet.net > >---------- >> From: Dakidd >> To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com >> Subject: Re: Arms traffik >> Date: Tuesday, July 01, 1997 7:30 PM >> >> bennett_t1@popmail.firn.edu wrote: >> >> >Arvin Meyer wrote: >> > >> >> We're still here ... but nothin' much is going on. Let's stay in >> >> touch. >> >> >> >> There is a new RC5 project competing with Bovine in Finland. >> >> http://www.rc5.cyberian.org >> >> >> >> I haven't decided IF or WHICH I'll join yet. Seems like a lot of >> >> bikering >> >> and mistrust at Bovine ...not at all like the comraderie here at >> >> Deschall. >> > >> >I started a Platform War on RC5 list that got me a killfile from one >> >person :-). >> >> Oh boy. What an excellent example of a constructive thing to do. I bet >your >> mom is proud of you, huh? >> >> Heck, I'M proud of you! I think I'll nominate you for some sort of medal. >> >> Bozo of the Week sounds like a good starting place. >> >> And they say that the internet population as a whole is >geting >> brighter... >> >> >> Dakidd@mindspring.com +------------------------------+ >> +---------------------------------+ |Do you ever get the feel that | >> |I will choose a path that's clear| |the story's too damn real and | >> |I will choose free will -Rush | |in the present tense? -J. Tull| >> +---------------------------------+ +------------------------------+ >> Dakidd@mindspring.com +------------------------------+ +---------------------------------+ |Do you ever get the feel that | |I will choose a path that's clear| |the story's too damn real and | |I will choose free will -Rush | |in the present tense? -J. Tull| +---------------------------------+ +------------------------------+ From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 08:53:57 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA19524 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 08:53:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA19515 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 08:53:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gw.research.megasoft.com(206.230.35.93) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma019510; Wed, 2 Jul 97 08:52:34 -0400 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gw.research.megasoft.com (8.7.5/8.7.3-cmcurtin) id JAA26575; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:13:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from goffette.research.megasoft.com(192.168.1.2) by gw.research.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma026573; Wed, 2 Jul 97 09:13:15 -0400 Received: (from cmcurtin@localhost) by goffette.research.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA20213; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 08:58:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970701220241.00a30860@hfdirect.com> X-Sender: dmcnett@hfdirect.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 22:02:41 -0500 To: Keith Chang , deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: David McNett Subject: Re: Arms traffik In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970701185815.00941ba0@128.193.4.5> References: <19970701154057.51935@maverick.isdn.uiuc.edu> <33B93BDD.777D8AAF@popmail.firn.edu> <199707011213.IAA14834@esinet1.esinet.net> <33B93BDD.777D8AAF@popmail.firn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk At 06:58 p 1-07-1997 -0700, Keith Chang wrote: >I wish the RC5 group had something like the deschall-announce list that was >going here. Cut out all the junk and give the significant stuff, like stat >milestones, new versions and bug workarounds. Just for the record, there is an announce-only list. Just send the standard "subscribe rc5-announce" message to majordomo@llamas.net and you're set. -David McNett nugget@slacker.com From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 12:46:58 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id MAA21059 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:46:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id MAA21051 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:46:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lucifer.testlab.orst.edu(128.193.78.11) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma021047; Wed, 2 Jul 97 12:46:28 -0400 Received: by lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:01:41 -0700 Message-ID: <71846B925036CF11BD6D00C0D15709291274ED@lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU> From: Adam Haberlach To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com, "'rc5@llamas.net'" Subject: T-shirt interest... DES Challenge Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:01:39 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Sorry for sending this to the rc5 list, too...I think people have been dropping off of the deschall list, and I wanted to get them as well. I have created a simple CGI voting script for people to submit suggestions for T-shirts, and to record their interest. I should have done this a while ago, and I hope it isn't too late to get anyone's attention. I have it set up at http://www.engr.orst.edu/~haberlad/tshirt.html. It's pretty rudimentry right now. Mail me if you have any suggestions about the SCRIPT. Suggestions for the T-shirt should be submitted by the cgi script itself. - --- Adam Haberlach http://www.testlab.orst.edu/~haberlaa Free Lottery Tickets! Odds: 1/72,000,000,000,000 http://rc5.distributed.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBM7ol6RSmwqZasiJdAQGFuAQAmiliiX5aV+2WsaY9A5vxMqj+608ZzGma 6/g/Gg1FVMofn3+CgcO8cmL3gjLjbajCjVCKpmVO0tWJwhEoL5HiOn4EoyqmW4OF GCsZPB7z0uBIHPLq7QdR1LRZYWRt/q1OteQZSEV0aHxt1KQ09Zxm0rusVI5lJ8DK jcNum1DGjGE= =Np2D -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 13:10:28 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id NAA21172 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:10:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id NAA21166 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:10:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gw.usorder.com(204.4.28.2) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma021161; Wed, 2 Jul 97 13:09:59 -0400 Received: (from shutdown@localhost) by fw.usorder.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) id MAA14257; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:52:45 -0400 Received: from reddog.intelidata.com(192.168.40.1) by fw.usorder.com via smap (V2.0beta) id xma014252; Wed, 2 Jul 97 12:52:35 -0400 Received: from distribution.usorder.com by usorder.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA26011; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:09:05 -0400 Received: from totoro.usorder.com by distribution.usorder.com (8.6.12/ADD-KEV-4.1) id LAA26388; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:16:55 -0600 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:19:10 -0400 Message-ID: <01BC86EA.86C72A80.sstuart@intelidata.com> From: Shaun Stuart - Keeper Of All Knowledge To: "'Adam Haberlach'" , "deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com" , "'rc5@llamas.net'" Subject: RE: T-shirt interest... DES Challenge Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:19:08 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4128 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Wednesday, July 02, 1997 1:02 PM, Adam Haberlach [SMTP:HaberlaA@testlab.orst.edu] wrote: > I have created a simple CGI voting script for people to submit > suggestions for T-shirts, and to record their interest. I > should have done this a while ago, and I hope it isn't too late > to get anyone's attention. > > I have it set up at > http://www.engr.orst.edu/~haberlad/tshirt.html. Actually, it's at http://www.engr.orst.edu/~haberlad/desch/tshirt.html Shaun From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 13:26:58 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id NAA21282 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:26:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id NAA21274 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:26:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailhost.carreker.com(206.50.131.2) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma021269; Wed, 2 Jul 97 13:26:38 -0400 Received: by tcg_nt1.carreker.com from localhost (router,SLMail V2.5); Wed, 02 Jul 1997 12:35:49 -0600 Received: by tcg_nt1.carreker.com from mailhost.atl.carreker.com (206.104.97.10::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.5); Wed, 02 Jul 1997 12:35:48 -0600 Received: from 206.50.243.183 by mailhost.atl.carreker.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1457.7) id N9BRXV6G; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:39:54 -0400 From: "Skip Huffman" To: "Adam Haberlach" , "deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com" , "rc5@llamas.net" Date: Wed, 02 Jul 97 13:34:48 -0400 Reply-To: "=?iso-8859-0?q?Skip_Huffman,_Carreker_Antinori?=" X-Mailer: PMMail 1.91+ Running at WARP Speed X-Tag: ** TagIt/2 v1.4 ** for PMMail by Robert Spangler MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [rc5] T-shirt interest... DES Challenge Message-Id: <19970702123549.024a9878.in@tcg_nt1.carreker.com> Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:01:39 -0700, Adam Haberlach wrote: >I have created a simple CGI voting script for people to submit >suggestions for T-shirts, and to record their interest. I >should have done this a while ago, and I hope it isn't too late >to get anyone's attention. > > I have it set up at >http://www.engr.orst.edu/~haberlad/tshirt.html. You are 404 man. I can get to your resume` page, but not to the tshirt page. Sorry, Skip Huffman Carreker-Antinori Atlanta Office Quality Group From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 14:14:32 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA21592 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:14:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA21581; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magic.adaptec.com(162.62.21.8) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma021575; Wed, 2 Jul 97 14:14:02 -0400 Received: from kingdom.adaptec.com by adaptec.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA02010; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:23:16 -0700 Received: from eng.adaptec.com by kingdom.adaptec.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA21497; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:23:14 -0700 Received: from starbug by eng.adaptec.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02283; Wed, 2 Jul 97 11:22:34 PDT Message-Id: <9707021822.AA02283@eng.adaptec.com> To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com, owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com X-Mailer: Post Road Mailer for OS/2 (Green Edition Ver 2.5) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:19:55 PST From: Aaron Williams Reply-To: aaronw@eng.adaptec.com Subject: Re: Arms traffik Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk ** Reply to note from "Karl J. Runge" Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:16:02 -0700 > I don't know if many on this list knew that Rocke managed the whole > key service thru a 28.8 ppp connection, but he did. And for the bulk > of the contest did it on with 486, and only at the end upgraded to > a pentium. These facts still amaze me! In a certain sense, 2^56 keys is > "trivial". I think part of that is due to the effecient UDP protocol Rocke devised. For this application UDP rocks (no pun intended) compared to TCP. It also requires a lot less work on the part of the server and TCP/IP stack, as well as less traffic. Let's see, send a single packet to the server when completing a block or starting a new run, and receive a single packet response from the server. Very effecient and well thought out. I'm now on Bovine, but they don't have a working proxy, nor even a SunOS proxy (which would be perfect, since only a few SunOS machines here have socks access through our firewall). -Aaron > > Cheers, > > Karl, ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aaron Williams Adaptec, Inc. aaronw@eng.adaptec.com (408) 945-8600 x3425 Inter-Networking Technology Check out our web site at HTTP://www.adaptec.com/networking/ATM.html Personal Java-based home page at HTTP://24.1.65.193 From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 15:18:00 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id PAA22062 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:18:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id PAA22057 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:17:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lucifer.testlab.orst.edu(128.193.78.11) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma022054; Wed, 2 Jul 97 15:17:39 -0400 Received: by lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:32:52 -0700 Message-ID: <71846B925036CF11BD6D00C0D15709291274EE@lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU> From: Adam Haberlach To: "'deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com'" , "'rc5@llamas.net'" Subject: DES Challenge T-shirt (Sorry) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:32:50 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Once more, sorry for posting into rc5. The correct URL is: http://www.engr.orst.edu/~haberlad/desch/tshirt.html. Once again, any suggestions regarding T-shirts should be submitted via the script. Any suggestions regarding the script should be submitted via e-mail (to me). - --- Adam Haberlach http://www.testlab.orst.edu/~haberlaa Free Lottery Tickets! Odds: 1/72,000,000,000,000 http://rc5.distributed.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBM7pJWhSmwqZasiJdAQFl3gP/ZZt6AQeeDSDHIo+Uo70lQYepC+aUbriw BmrMPabq7CJpCRb+LKeIbQbQqBotPIN2/XBbqc3yaWONnIC6ceZrNE5zMBr/xLT7 gQd3W2qtFIjatWXiS9ybKRYx13MIjDtshYPxfwLOGQqc3GzTY7wSWDStkEdvn63d gH1S5w/a00M= =2OI8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 16:25:02 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA22610 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:25:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA22605 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:25:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from f02s02.tac.net(205.233.109.40) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma022600; Wed, 2 Jul 97 16:24:40 -0400 Received: from osg01x.suncor-osg.com ([199.85.9.10]) by f02s02.tac.net (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id OAA27404 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:33:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by osg01x.suncor-osg.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BC86F5.8F65BC50@osg01x.suncor-osg.com>; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:38:09 -0600 Message-ID: From: "Thompson, Christopher" To: "'deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com'" Subject: Plaintext Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:38:07 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Something's been bothering me for a few days. If we hadn't have known _anything_ about the plain text of the DES-encrypted message, we wouldn't have been able to decrypt it, even using brute force. Is this correct? From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 16:50:02 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA22844 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:50:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA22835 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:50:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gs213.sp.cs.cmu.edu(128.2.209.183) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma022826; Wed, 2 Jul 97 16:49:44 -0400 Received: by GS213.SP.CS.CMU.EDU (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA35183; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:58:46 -0400 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:58:46 -0400 Message-Id: <9707022058.AA35183@GS213.SP.CS.CMU.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Darrell Kindred To: "Thompson, Christopher" Cc: "'deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com'" Subject: Re: Plaintext Organization: Carnegie Mellon University School of Computer Science In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Thompson, Christopher writes: > Something's been bothering me for a few days. > > If we hadn't have known _anything_ about the plain text of the > DES-encrypted message, we wouldn't have been able to decrypt it, even > using brute force. Is this correct? That's correct. If you have no way to distinguish the correct decrypted message from random gibberish, then brute-force keysearch won't help you. However, in most cryptographic applications, you do know at least something about the output you expect; you may know that it's English text, that it probably contains no "control characters", or that it has certain header fields. The search is most efficient if you know exactly what you're looking for, but even if you just have a moderately quick way to separate the wheat from the chaff, brute-force key search can do the job. - Darrell From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 17:10:03 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA22927 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 17:10:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA22922 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 17:10:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.earthlink.net(207.217.91.200) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma022915; Wed, 2 Jul 97 17:09:55 -0400 Received: from styx ([207.217.92.240]) by mercury.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA15217; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:18:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707022118.OAA15217@mercury.earthlink.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Brian Murphy" Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc. To: "Thompson, Christopher" Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:17:02 -8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Plaintext Reply-to: brianm@earthlink.net CC: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk > From: "Thompson, Christopher" > To: "'deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com'" > Subject: Plaintext > Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:38:07 -0600 > Something's been bothering me for a few days. > > If we hadn't have known _anything_ about the plain text of the > DES-encrypted message, we wouldn't have been able to decrypt it, > even using brute force. Is this correct? It would have been just as easy to hit the correct key, it just would have been a little harder to realize when it was that you found it, without knowing at least something about what was inside, whether it be a known string, or knowing that it was something in English, or whatever. If the secret message had just been itself a random series of characters, there would have been no way to figure out if you had the right one, or not. It wasn't all too unrealistic of RSA to provide some known plaintext though. In most real world applications, you'll have at least some information about what's inside, whether it's time-stamps, or headers, on a Word document, or whatever. > > > Brian Murphy Network Engineer Earthlink Network, Inc. brianm@earthlink.net From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 17:10:08 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA22932 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 17:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA22921 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 17:10:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu(128.113.100.7) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma022911; Wed, 2 Jul 97 17:09:31 -0400 Received: from eclipse.its.rpi.edu (gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu [128.113.24.33]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA149498 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 17:18:45 -0400 Received: by eclipse.its.rpi.edu (NX5.67e/NX3.0M) id AA23177; Wed, 2 Jul 97 17:18:42 -0400 Message-Id: <9707022118.AA23177@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Garance A Drosehn Date: Wed, 2 Jul 97 17:18:40 -0400 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Plaintext References: Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Christopher Thompson writes: > Something's been bothering me for a few days. > > If we hadn't have known _anything_ about the plain text of the > DES-encrypted message, we wouldn't have been able to decrypt it, > even using brute force. Is this correct? It would have been a bit more work to decrypt it, but that's just a matter of applying a bit more force to the brute-force method. You'd have to add some heuristic to determine if a given key decrypted it into something that "kinda looks like a message". This wouldn't be too bad if we know the message was in english, but it would get even tougher if we didn't know the language the message was written in. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer (MIME & NeXTmail capable) Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 17:28:03 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA23047 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 17:28:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA23042 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 17:28:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from eliot213.wuh.wustl.edu(128.252.105.213) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023039; Wed, 2 Jul 97 17:27:35 -0400 Received: from eliot213.wuh.wustl.edu (ejeffrey@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eliot213.wuh.wustl.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA10288 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:36:48 -0500 Message-Id: <199707022136.QAA10288@eliot213.wuh.wustl.edu> Reply-To: erjeffre@artsci.wustl.edu To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Plaintext In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Jul 1997 14:38:07 MDT." Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 16:36:48 -0500 From: Evan Jeffrey Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk >Something's been bothering me for a few days. > >If we hadn't have known _anything_ about the plain text of the >DES-encrypted message, we wouldn't have been able to decrypt it, even >using brute force. Is this correct? True. You need some way to determine when you have the right code. This isn't really a problem, as almost all messages have some sort of headers or other identifying information. But no, other than that there is no real way to detetermine one set of random-looking noise from any other. === Evan Jeffrey erjeffre@artsci.wustl.edu The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 18:00:35 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23290 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:00:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23283 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:00:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pinotnoir.media.mit.edu(18.85.16.104) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023278; Wed, 2 Jul 97 18:00:19 -0400 Received: (from nelson@localhost) by pinotnoir.media.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.4) id SAA24714; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:08:47 -0400 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:08:47 -0400 Message-Id: <199707022208.SAA24714@pinotnoir.media.mit.edu> From: nelson@media.mit.edu (Nelson Minar) To: brianm@earthlink.net Cc: "Thompson, Christopher" , deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Plaintext In-Reply-To: <199707022118.OAA15217@mercury.earthlink.net> References: <199707022118.OAA15217@mercury.earthlink.net> Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk >In most real world applications, you'll have at least some >information about what's inside, whether it's time-stamps, or >headers, on a Word document, or whatever. This is basic canon for cryptanalysis, but I'm not sure I believe it. PGP, for instance, does its best to compress the data up to maximum entropy to prevent analysis on the plaintext. What do you do in that circumstance? From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 18:03:35 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23306 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:03:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23301 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:03:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from calliope1.fm.intel.com(132.233.247.10) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023299; Wed, 2 Jul 97 18:03:11 -0400 Received: from mcd.intel.com by calliope1.fm.intel.com (8.8.4/10.0i); Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:12:24 GMT Received: from fmwu74 (fmwu74.fm.intel.com [132.233.81.35]) by mcd.intel.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA26520 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:12:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:12:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Collin Ong X-Sender: collin@fmwu74 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Plaintext In-Reply-To: <9707022118.AA23177@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Garance A Drosehn wrote: > This wouldn't be too bad if we know the message was in english, > but it would get even tougher if we didn't know the language > the message was written in. So maybe an easy letter substitution cypher or some such applied before the encryption would do alot of good even given the simplicity of the cypher. It would make detecting a correct brute force key alot harder. Collin Ong From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 18:06:05 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23325 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:06:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23320 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:06:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b426wfee-1.nursing.msu.edu(35.8.144.96) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023318; Wed, 2 Jul 97 18:05:55 -0400 Received: (from hagmanti@localhost) by hagmanti.nursing.msu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA13329 for deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:15:08 -0400 Message-Id: <199707022215.SAA13329@hagmanti.nursing.msu.edu> Subject: Re: Plaintext To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:15:07 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199707022208.SAA24714@pinotnoir.media.mit.edu> from "Nelson Minar" at Jul 2, 97 06:08:47 pm From: "Timothy C. Hagman" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Nelson Minar penned, off the top of the head: > entropy to prevent analysis on the plaintext. What do you do in that > circumstance? Find the holder of the passphrase, point a gun at him or her, and demand it. Cheap, effective, and nearly always yields results. (And most major governments can afford guns ;) That's why it's only "Pretty Good" Privacy. There's this little loophole. :) Me -- Disclaimer: Anything I said, writ, or thought in my life should not necessarily be held or thought to imply any view, opinion, or idea of mine, any organization I have chosen to associate with, or those people who choose to associate with me. - hagmanti@pilot.msu.edu From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 18:06:35 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23340 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:06:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23335 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:06:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hermes.services.ou.edu(129.15.2.121) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023333; Wed, 2 Jul 97 18:06:29 -0400 Received: from skaro.dsa.ou.edu by hermes.services.ou.edu with ESMTP; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 17:15:43 -0500 X-Sender: greg@129.15.75.70 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 17:14:40 -0500 To: "Thompson, Christopher" , "'deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com'" From: Greg Trotter Subject: Re: Plaintext Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk At 3:38 PM -0500 7/2/97, Thompson, Christopher wrote: >Something's been bothering me for a few days. > >If we hadn't have known _anything_ about the plain text of the >DES-encrypted message, we wouldn't have been able to decrypt it, even >using brute force. Is this correct? Right. As others have pointed out, however, someone trying to crack encrypted data will probably have some idea as to what's inside. Now... data that is multiply encrypted offers a great deal more protection, I imagine... once you find the correct key for the outermost later of encryption, the data you have is still encrypted. I don't profess to know a lot about encryption, but I would imagine that the encrypted data underneath might not be detectable as the proper data. - greg -- Greg Trotter Production Manager, Student Publications The University of Oklahoma greg@ou.edu From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 18:18:36 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23423 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:18:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23418 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:18:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gs213.sp.cs.cmu.edu(128.2.209.183) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023416; Wed, 2 Jul 97 18:18:25 -0400 Received: by GS213.SP.CS.CMU.EDU (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA43180; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:27:36 -0400 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:27:36 -0400 Message-Id: <9707022227.AA43180@GS213.SP.CS.CMU.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Darrell Kindred To: Nelson Minar Cc: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Plaintext Organization: Carnegie Mellon University School of Computer Science In-Reply-To: <199707022208.SAA24714@pinotnoir.media.mit.edu> References: <199707022118.OAA15217@mercury.earthlink.net> <199707022208.SAA24714@pinotnoir.media.mit.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Nelson Minar writes: > >In most real world applications, you'll have at least some > >information about what's inside, whether it's time-stamps, or > >headers, on a Word document, or whatever. > > This is basic canon for cryptanalysis, but I'm not sure I believe it. > PGP, for instance, does its best to compress the data up to maximum > entropy to prevent analysis on the plaintext. What do you do in that > circumstance? Well, in the worst case, you can just try a decryption key, then see if the result uncompresses properly, then see if the uncompressed text looks like what you expected to see. Compressing plaintext may complicate the brute-force attack, but it doesn't prevent it. - Darrell From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 18:20:07 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23453 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:20:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23442 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:20:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from s5-25-55.student.washington.edu(128.95.25.55) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023432; Wed, 2 Jul 97 18:19:41 -0400 Received: (from xyzzy@localhost) by s5-25-55.student.washington.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA28528; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:28:53 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:28:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Trent Piepho To: DESCHALL Subject: Re: Plaintext In-Reply-To: <199707022215.SAA13329@hagmanti.nursing.msu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Timothy C. Hagman wrote: > Nelson Minar penned, off the top of the head: > > entropy to prevent analysis on the plaintext. What do you do in that > > circumstance? > > Find the holder of the passphrase, point a gun at him or her, and > demand it. Cheap, effective, and nearly always yields results. > (And most major governments can afford guns ;) The gun isn't even necessary. Just call them up and say you're from net ops or something. All this talk about attacking cryptographic algorithms is kind of silly, since the weak link by far is people. It would have been much faster to brute force open the desk at RSA where someone wrote the key down. |Gazing up to the breeze of the heavens \ on a quest, meaning, reason | |came to be, how it begun \ all alone in the family of the sun | |curiosity teasing everyone \ on our home, third stone from the sun. | |Trent Piepho (xyzzy@u.washington.edu) -- Metallica | From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 18:32:06 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23519 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:32:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23513 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:32:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from s5-25-55.student.washington.edu(128.95.25.55) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023509; Wed, 2 Jul 97 18:31:55 -0400 Received: (from xyzzy@localhost) by s5-25-55.student.washington.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA28558; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:41:19 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:41:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Trent Piepho To: DESCHALL Subject: technical DES stuff Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Since this list seems to be winding down, I wondered if anyone knew of a place to talk about the technical issues of cracking DES? I wanted to design a DES cracking ASIC as a class project, but the professor said it was too easy?!, we did an 8-bit CPU instead. I'd still like to work on a DES cracking chip, maybe make it a senior project or something. I wonder where I could find out about ways to speed up the search from the obvious method. I think I read on this list that it possible to eliminate a key after 12 rounds instead of 16. I can see how to do it in 15, but not 12. I know most speedups are "software" things and don't apply to a hardware implementation, where P-boxes are free and a 48-bit XOR is just as fast as a 32-bit XOR. |Gazing up to the breeze of the heavens \ on a quest, meaning, reason | |came to be, how it begun \ all alone in the family of the sun | |curiosity teasing everyone \ on our home, third stone from the sun. | |Trent Piepho (xyzzy@u.washington.edu) -- Metallica | From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 18:52:37 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23647 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:52:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23642 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.5.101) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023640; Wed, 2 Jul 97 18:52:21 -0400 Received: from primenet.com (root@mailhost02.primenet.com [206.165.5.53]) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA11485 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:01:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhost.primenet.com (ip47-171.fhu.primenet.com [206.165.47.171]) by primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA11822 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:01:33 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199707022301.QAA11822@primenet.com> To: "'deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com'" X-Mailer: Post Road Mailer for OS/2 (Green Edition Ver 2.5) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:01:27 MST From: Stephen Haffly Reply-To: Stephen Haffly Subject: Re: Plaintext Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk ** Reply to note from "Thompson, Christopher" Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:38:07 -0600 > > Something's been bothering me for a few days. > > If we hadn't have known _anything_ about the plain text of the > DES-encrypted message, we wouldn't have been able to decrypt it, > even using brute force. Is this correct? > > > No, it would have made the job more difficult as each attempt would have had to be checked with something akin to a spelling checker to see if any legitimate words were there. It probably would have then needed to be checked all the way through to see if all words were legitimate just in case one or more words were legitimate, but not the whole message, as one would expect from a random key attempt. It would then probably need to be placed in a queue for a final check by a human to make sure it indeed made sense, as I have yet to see a grammar checker accurate enough to trust. Then it would have to have been submitted to verify that the correct key had indeed been discovered (as was done in reality). More steps, but the end result would have been the same IMHO. --- Stephen Haffly hafflys@primenet.com Homepage: www.primenet.com/~hafflys Team OS/2, Team GEOS OS/2 and Geoworks Ensemble - What a combo! From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 19:04:07 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA23707 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:04:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA23702 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:04:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from friley72-temp.res.iastate.edu(129.186.78.72) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023700; Wed, 2 Jul 97 19:03:39 -0400 Received: from localhost (vorlon@localhost) by cozad.dodds.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA07065 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:12:53 -0500 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:12:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Langasek To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Plaintext In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Trent Piepho wrote: > On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Timothy C. Hagman wrote: > > Nelson Minar penned, off the top of the head: > > > entropy to prevent analysis on the plaintext. What do you do in that > > > circumstance? > > > > Find the holder of the passphrase, point a gun at him or her, and > > demand it. Cheap, effective, and nearly always yields results. > > (And most major governments can afford guns ;) > > The gun isn't even necessary. Just call them up and say you're from net ops > or something. All this talk about attacking cryptographic algorithms is kind > of silly, since the weak link by far is people. It would have been much > faster to brute force open the desk at RSA where someone wrote the key down. True enough, but while it might even have gotten someone the prize money (time to solve: 15 seconds, equipment used: one crowbar), it wouldn't have been nearly as useful from a political perspective. :) -Steve Langasek -doink- From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 19:40:38 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA23884 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:40:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA23879 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:40:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown(209.70.16.2) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023877; Wed, 2 Jul 97 19:40:34 -0400 Received: (from achurch@localhost) by Bahamut.dragonfire.net (8.8.5/8.7.5) id TAA22652; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:49:46 -0400 Message-Id: <199707022349.TAA22652@Bahamut.dragonfire.net> From: achurch@dragonfire.net (Andy Church) To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Plaintext Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 19:49:45 EDT X-Mailer: MMail v4.61 Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk >Now... data that is multiply encrypted offers a great deal more protection, >I imagine... once you find the correct key for the outermost later of >encryption, the data you have is still encrypted. I don't profess to know a >lot about encryption, but I would imagine that the encrypted data >underneath might not be detectable as the proper data. There's not really much difference between doing that and doing a single encryption with a longer key. In the former case, you just run through each key of each encryption level, doing all of them at once: if (0 == memcmp(known_header, decrypt(decrypt(cipher, key1), key2), len)... Of course, the other thing all this assumes is that you know the encryption algorithm. If someone RC5's their data, then exclusive-or's every byte with 0x3B, you can try every RC5 key possible and you're still not going to decrypt the message successfully, even though the second algorithm is hardly "encryption" at all. Even if the exclusive-or was done first, it still would be considerably more difficult to know that you'd found what you were looking for. And there are so many different things you can do to data that don't have to be cryptographically sound that this sort of "security through obscurity" works when combined with a real encryption algorithm. Again, of course, you do have to discount the "hold a gun to his head" decryption method... ;) --Andy Church | If Bell Atlantic really is the heart achurch@dragonfire.net | of communication, then it desperately www.dragonfire.net/~achurch/ | needs a quadruple bypass. From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 19:55:08 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA23957 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA23952 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:55:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ha1.ntr.net(206.112.0.10) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023947; Wed, 2 Jul 97 19:54:38 -0400 Received: from ozone (rmtA047.ntr.net [206.112.4.47]) by ha1.ntr.net (NTR*NET 2.1.0) with SMTP id UAA25947; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 20:03:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 20:02:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Dickens X-Sender: cdickens@ozone To: Stephen Langasek cc: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Plaintext In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Stephen Langasek wrote: > On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Trent Piepho wrote: > > > On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Timothy C. Hagman wrote: > > > Nelson Minar penned, off the top of the head: > > > > entropy to prevent analysis on the plaintext. What do you do in that > > > > circumstance? > > > > > > Find the holder of the passphrase, point a gun at him or her, and > > > demand it. Cheap, effective, and nearly always yields results. > > > (And most major governments can afford guns ;) > > > > The gun isn't even necessary. Just call them up and say you're from net ops > > or something. All this talk about attacking cryptographic algorithms is kind > > of silly, since the weak link by far is people. It would have been much > > faster to brute force open the desk at RSA where someone wrote the key down. > > True enough, but while it might even have gotten someone the prize money > (time to solve: 15 seconds, equipment used: one crowbar), it wouldn't have > been nearly as useful from a political perspective. :) Not necessarily... 8-) Unless RSA wanted to look like their facility was vulnerable, wouldn't tell anyone, then the user could simply drop a hint in Rocke's mailbox of which keyblock section to dish out next to receive the winning prize right away. CRACK RC5 NOW!!! http://rc5.distributed.net/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Christopher Dickens - cdickens@ntr.net - SGI O2 Powered!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Copyright (c) 1997 by Christopher Dickens. All Rights Reserved. NOTE: Everything disclosed is the sole opinion of Christopher Dickens and in no way reflects the views or opinions, either in whole or part, of NTR.NET Corporation or any of it's affiliates. From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 22:17:40 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA24378 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:17:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA24372 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:17:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown(209.70.16.2) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma024370; Wed, 2 Jul 97 22:17:35 -0400 Received: (from achurch@localhost) by Bahamut.dragonfire.net (8.8.5/8.7.5) id WAA02515; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:26:47 -0400 Message-Id: <199707030226.WAA02515@Bahamut.dragonfire.net> From: achurch@dragonfire.net (Andy Church) To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Plaintext Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 22:26:43 EDT X-Mailer: MMail v4.61 Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk > The gun isn't even necessary. Just call them up and say you're from net ops > or something. All this talk about attacking cryptographic algorithms is kind > of silly, since the weak link by far is people. It would have been much > faster to brute force open the desk at RSA where someone wrote the key down. Except that there was no such desk. Assuming RSA was telling the truth, the keys were generated randomly by computer and never stored anywhere. They had the _plaintext_ so they could check whether a solution was right, but that alone wouldn't have gotten you the prize. --Andy Church | If Bell Atlantic really is the heart achurch@dragonfire.net | of communication, then it desperately www.dragonfire.net/~achurch/ | needs a quadruple bypass. From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 22:34:41 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA24431 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:34:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA24426 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:34:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown(204.252.20.9) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma024424; Wed, 2 Jul 97 22:34:19 -0400 Received: (from sigma@localhost) by ishmael.nmh.northfield.ma.us (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA01592; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:46:32 -0400 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:46:32 -0400 From: "Seth D. Schoen" Message-Id: <199707030246.WAA01592@ishmael.nmh.northfield.ma.us> To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com, greg@ou.edu Subject: Re: Plaintext Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk > data that is multiply encrypted offers a great deal more protection, > I imagine ... once you find the correct key for the outmermost layer of > encryption, the data you have is still encrypted ... True, and that's why you can't break 3DES in only three times as long as DES. It would take many times as long by brute force. If you could identify encrypted cipertexts as "correct", you could just break the outer cipher by brute force, then the next cipher by brute force, and so on. So three applications of 56-bit RC5 would be crackable in three times as long as a single RC5. If, as in the real world, you can't necessarily tell when you've found the decryption of any layer but the last layer, breaking a triple 56-bit RC5 by brute force will take you (2^56)^2, rather than 3, times as long as breaking a single 56-bit RC5 also by brute force. :-) -- Nothing is more dangerous for man's private morality than the habit of commanding. The best man, the most intelligent, disinterested, generous, pure, will infallibly and always be spoiled at this trade. -- Mikhail A. Bakunin (thanks to Rabbi Albert Axelrad) From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 23:08:12 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA24509 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 23:08:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA24502 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 23:08:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from eliot213.wuh.wustl.edu(128.252.105.213) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma024498; Wed, 2 Jul 97 23:08:02 -0400 Received: from eliot213.wuh.wustl.edu (ejeffrey@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eliot213.wuh.wustl.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA13530 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:17:15 -0500 Message-Id: <199707030317.WAA13530@eliot213.wuh.wustl.edu> Reply-To: erjeffre@artsci.wustl.edu To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Plaintext In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Jul 1997 22:46:32 EDT." <199707030246.WAA01592@ishmael.nmh.northfield.ma.us> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 22:17:15 -0500 From: Evan Jeffrey Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk >If, as in the real world, you can't necessarily tell when you've found >the decryption of any layer but the last layer, breaking a triple 56-bit >RC5 by brute force will take you (2^56)^2, rather than 3, times as long >as breaking a single 56-bit RC5 also by brute force. :-) except that many triple DES implementations use the same key for the first and third encryption. So it is really "double DES + some an extra encryption to make it look noisy" As for triple RC5, I don't know why one would do that, since the RC5 algorithm is parameterized to allow key sizes of up to 128 bits already. === Evan Jeffrey erjeffre@artsci.wustl.edu The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. From owner-deschall-announce Thu Jul 3 09:26:45 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA26805 for deschall-outgoing; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:26:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA26800 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:26:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from f31.hotmail.com(207.82.250.42) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma026798; Thu, 3 Jul 97 09:26:14 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by f31.hotmail.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA12634; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 06:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707031335.GAA12634@f31.hotmail.com> Received: from 206.83.78.35 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 03 Jul 1997 06:35:23 PDT X-Originating-IP: [206.83.78.35] From: "Randy Weems" To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Plaintext Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 06:35:23 PDT Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk >...All this talk about attacking cryptographic >algorithms is kind of silly, since the weak link by far is people. >It would have been much faster to brute force open the desk at RSA >where someone wrote the key down. Nope, wouldn't have worked. RSA chose a random key, encrypted the message, and threw the key away. It wasn't written down or permanently stored anywhere. If you had broken into RSA's facilities, the best you could have done was get the rest of the plaintext, not the key. The correct key was verified by seeing if it would properly decrypt the cyphertext to the plaintext (or encrypt the plaintext to the cyphertext). --------------------------------------- Randy Weems mailto:rweems@hotmail.com http://www.concentric.net/~Mithran/ _______________________________________________________ Get Private Web-Based Email Free http://www.hotmail.com From owner-deschall-announce Thu Jul 3 09:29:44 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA26823 for deschall-outgoing; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:29:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA26818 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:29:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparc.isl.net(199.3.25.3) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma026816; Thu, 3 Jul 97 09:29:38 -0400 Received: from Kosh (ppp-01.isl.net [199.3.25.50]) by sparc.isl.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA23623 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:34:18 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33BC540D.6672E6FB@sparc.isl.net> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 20:38:21 -0500 From: Leo Schmidt X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.29 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Key server still running? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Greetings all. After we (Deschall) had found the key, Rocke had said something to the effect that he'd leave the keyserver running to fill in some space around the key. Well, I've finally decided to move onto an RC5 effort and noticed that my des client was still happily crunching away at keyblocks. How much more crunching needs be done? I'd be willing to run it for a bit longer if that would help. How many clients are still crunching DES keyspace? What kind of keyrate is being had for this "cleanup" phase? How much longer will the web site stay up? I'd like to grab a few things off of it soon as a momento(sp) of my contributions. From owner-deschall-announce Thu Jul 3 10:11:45 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA27047 for deschall-outgoing; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 10:11:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA27042 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 10:11:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lucifer.testlab.orst.edu(128.193.78.11) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma027040; Thu, 3 Jul 97 10:11:34 -0400 Received: by lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 07:26:32 -0700 Message-ID: <71846B925036CF11BD6D00C0D15709290BF75A@lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU> From: Adam Haberlach To: "'deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com'" Subject: RE: Plaintext Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 07:26:29 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- - -----Original Message----- From: Greg Trotter [SMTP:greg@ou.edu] Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 1997 3:15 PM To: Thompson, Christopher; 'deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com' Subject: Re: Plaintext >At 3:38 PM -0500 7/2/97, Thompson, Christopher wrote: >>If we hadn't have known _anything_ about the plain text of the >>DES-encrypted message, we wouldn't have been able to decrypt >it, even >>using brute force. Is this correct? >Right. As others have pointed out, however, someone trying to >crack >encrypted data will probably have some idea as to what's >inside. >Now... data that is multiply encrypted offers a great deal more >protection, >I imagine... once you find the correct key for the outermost >later of >encryption, the data you have is still encrypted. I don't >profess to know a >lot about encryption, but I would imagine that the encrypted >data >underneath might not be detectable as the proper data. Unless you decrypt it and find that it says: - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At the top... - --- Adam Haberlach http://www.testlab.orst.edu/~haberlaa Free Lottery Tickets! Odds: 1/72,000,000,000,000 http://rc5.distributed.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBM7p+7BSmwqZasiJdAQElywQAm8aTekm0ALiNOFRvVV/eCDa/iayssYjg XB5AP0Kc+BOg4NYfDmKSWDtOzJw/tI2jD4UfYWiw/gHJ9GIOluPzJmLPVWf/4f4l tZ/bgYeSK1XEh+OLaB1V+kUpHpNqFq+NrOdDdhj52OJ8Mq4LUJPeY22Sn20tnF8G jOZJTmujfak= =fJg5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-deschall-announce Sun Jul 6 22:39:03 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA12710 for deschall-outgoing; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 22:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA12705 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 22:39:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lucifer.testlab.orst.edu(128.193.78.11) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma012703; Sun, 6 Jul 97 22:39:00 -0400 Received: by lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 19:54:28 -0700 Message-ID: <71846B925036CF11BD6D00C0D15709290BF75B@lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU> From: Adam Haberlach To: "'deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com'" Subject: Of T-shirts, Web Sites, and production... Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 19:54:25 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I have collected the e-mail addresses and suggestions of more then 50 people who are interested in T-shirts. If you are interested, please visit the web page at http://www.engr.orst.edu/~haberlad/desch/tshirt.html I don't know if I made it clear in the web page, but I am not producing a T-shirt. I am merely conducting a poll to see how many people (and more important, WHICH people) are interested. I did this rather then try and filter through 2000 messages on the mailing list looking for people who were interested. And because it made more sense to do it via a specific CGI script. We now know who is interested in BUYING a shirt. This is good. The next question is: Who is interested in making and selling a shirt? I know of at least one serious effort. If someone will E-mail me the options and information, I will coalate these and figure out what's up. I will also release the list of names, email addresses, and suggestions to anyone who is producing shirts, so they may get in contact with avid shirt-buyers in order to distribute specifics for the offer, gather mailing/billing info, etc... (and I may not even hold out for a free shirt for being the first person to organize the shirt-creation effort!) - --- Adam Haberlach http://www.testlab.orst.edu/~haberlaa Free Lottery Tickets! Odds: 1/72,000,000,000,000 http://rc5.distributed.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBM7/t8RSmwqZasiJdAQGo2QQApU3oRIFs+0z0Ow8CIhNtg+DOJVenH810 dSmVcDw8pmACqFQ9HAGGOh92zwmZRAO74b4tcHCBBkBoZyY3NCZKgVEdQmiUZwMr eDNJHqrwd1wNQSN/rJf3lQZdpz3KdaarstXGk05cRG00uG9PrISoYvfz8kX5ezhG CUws/2a43LY= =3g9E -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-deschall-announce Sun Jul 6 23:00:34 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA12779 for deschall-outgoing; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:00:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA12774 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:00:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.jfku.edu(204.161.52.10) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma012772; Sun, 6 Jul 97 23:00:02 -0400 Received: by jfku.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA00605; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 20:09:11 -0700 Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 20:09:11 -0700 Message-Id: <9707070309.AA00605@jfku.edu> To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com, deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com, deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com, deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Of T-shirts, Web Sites, and production... In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Adam Haberlach ' dated: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 19:54:25 -0700 From: "Karl J. Runge" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Sun, 6 Jul 1997, Adam Haberlach wrote: > The next question is: Who is interested in making and selling > a shirt? I know of at least one serious effort. If someone > will E-mail me the options and information, I will coalate these > and figure out what's up. I will buy *any* DES shirt (short of a guy with magic marker asking $30). If there has to be some number n > 1 of shirts produced to make people happy, I promise to buy one of each! I hope we can move on this before interest peters out. Karl From owner-deschall-announce Sun Jul 6 23:33:34 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA12843 for deschall-outgoing; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:33:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA12838 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:33:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chatlink.com(205.139.105.61) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma012836; Sun, 6 Jul 97 23:33:15 -0400 Received: from cl5-p7 (cl5-p7.chatlink.com [205.139.105.166]) by chatlink.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA02914 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 20:40:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 20:42:08 -0400 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: "Andrew James Alan Welty" Subject: Re: Of T-shirts, Web Sites, and production... Message-Id: <868236128-0-andrew@chatlink.com> X-Mailer: IBM OS/2 Internet Mail Client Support for Lotus Notes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Id: <868236128-1-andrew@chatlink.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk > I will buy *any* DES shirt (short of a guy with magic marker asking $30). How about a guy with two magic markers asking $60.00? From owner-deschall-announce Mon Jul 7 00:19:49 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA13230 for deschall-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:19:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA13225 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:19:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from serv1-2.jump.net(204.238.120.19) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma013223; Mon, 7 Jul 97 00:19:22 -0400 Received: from doh.jumpnet.com by serv1.jump.net (8.8.5/jump.1.11) id XAA03576; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:28:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707070428.XAA03576@serv1.jump.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Richard Hendricks" Organization: Motorola To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:27:41 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Of T-shirts, Web Sites, and production... Reply-to: hendric@jump.net X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42) Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk > Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 20:42:08 -0400 > To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com > From: "Andrew James Alan Welty" > Subject: Re: Of T-shirts, Web Sites, and production... > > > > > I will buy *any* DES shirt (short of a guy with magic marker asking $30). > > How about a guy with two magic markers asking $60.00? Now *that's* kinky... -- Richard Hendricks, Applications Engineer, Austin, Texas VGA Planets is not a game, it is a way of life. It is how, in this modern day and age, we can regress back to our roots Grind the bones of your enemies beneath your booted appendage. hendric@jump.net From owner-deschall-announce Mon Jul 7 17:48:36 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA19132 for deschall-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:48:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA19125 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:48:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ee.net(206.31.38.3) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma019116; Mon, 7 Jul 97 17:48:08 -0400 Received: from squirrel (modem23.columbus.ee.net [206.222.0.23]) by ee.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA08391; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:57:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970707182738.0069616c@ee.net> X-Sender: clydew@ee.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 18:27:38 -0400 To: "Karl J. Runge" From: Clyde Williamson Subject: Re: Of T-shirts, Web Sites, and production... Cc: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com In-Reply-To: <9707070309.AA00605@jfku.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >I will buy *any* DES shirt (short of a guy with magic marker asking $30). > >If there has to be some number n > 1 of shirts produced to make people >happy, I promise to buy one of each! I hope we can move on this before >interest peters out. Count me in with Karl. This was my first dist. computing effort and I WANT A SHIRT.:) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBM8FtR8eWPtttGqZhAQF1hwf8Ds6x8XUOp7bZ1tY/j7eqhx32w6lWzKM2 UW1r0aNpUk16b6LFwlS9K++ZiLpoDoeTIPpzpK7JNPIeKGHdfyG3TO1cDyiZA7SS 4DZWx7+nehypeMLRxxYSTgicepwiDPsFSy5VP4RhDaJ+1guPqVWL+1Uaf9HwTJEl d+sAkXRiu2oYyioXYdKn11js7CLnFz0pMxt74Y53tA9pQUAZ9MohOtRK00ciE1jS q2S/ng7zCgOA8imG6rrjkRTCfpnqTtCyAiB/ZI/PkMr0pzBNBb9n9Cb3GX+JwdqR RjwgGUcfQX+DUbLR88951w3CaWBFG/EXv/TvuQCe16vg5GrAy6YqHg== =Ax1H -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Clyde Williamson PGP Public Key found at http://users1.ee.net/clydew/pgp.htm We cracked DES!!! http://www.frii.com/~rcv/deschall.htm Member of "The Interhack Posse!! From owner-deschall-announce Mon Jul 7 19:02:38 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA19409 for deschall-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 19:02:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA19404 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 19:02:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown(207.211.120.4) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma019402; Mon, 7 Jul 97 19:02:18 -0400 Received: from [209.60.115.150] by why.net (SMTPD32-4.0) id A7491EA0108; Mon, 07 Jul 1997 18:10:01 -0500 Message-ID: <33C16987.7358@netcom.com> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 18:11:19 -0400 From: Kelly French Organization: French Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Karl J. Runge" CC: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Of T-shirts, Web Sites, and production... References: <3.0.1.32.19970707182738.0069616c@ee.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Count me in on an XL shirt. Kelly French kfrench@why.net From owner-deschall-announce Mon Jul 7 21:43:11 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id VAA19817 for deschall-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:43:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id VAA19812 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cmu1.acs.cmu.edu(128.2.35.186) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma019809; Mon, 7 Jul 97 21:42:53 -0400 Received: from [128.2.120.125] (COCOWHEAT-34.SLIP.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.120.125]) by cmu1.acs.cmu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id VAA27951 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:51:46 -0400 X-Sender: dtw@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <71846B925036CF11BD6D00C0D15709290BF75B@lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:51:12 -0400 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: Duane T Williams Subject: Re: Of T-shirts, Web Sites, and production... Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Adam Haberlach wrote: > The next question is: Who is interested in making and selling >a shirt? I know of at least one serious effort. If someone >will E-mail me the options and information, I will coalate these >and figure out what's up. I imagine that overseeing the production and handling the distribution of a t-shirt to a potentially large group of people would require a significant effort. We have seen a promising design which many people have commented on, but I don't presume that the person who did the design was necessarily committing to producing and distributing that t-shirt. Has anyone actually decided to undertake the task? I was somewhat surprised to see Adam's announcement that only 50 people have expressed an interest on the web site he set up, when apparently thousands participated in the effort. Am I mistaken in thinking there were that many involved? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBM8GdSskGBiHpmyU1AQF3XQP+NILCn6x6u7J4rNa54kO+gAGTgYZdVmoN lugCzyk5zSQTgODK56tmNmC3UveU1YEnuEnim+JISlUer3FJa76ciw/EbTFph9QM eDTTkmYrp/9tE1jGvj0gYzGSrABfoxvjiWa+gy5+O0WmnS+Y5tovbTWoJOJ6zl6h ADFi3+aAj9w= =RaJt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-deschall-announce Mon Jul 7 22:35:12 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA19971 for deschall-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 22:35:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA19966 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 22:35:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu(128.113.100.7) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma019964; Mon, 7 Jul 97 22:35:08 -0400 Received: from eclipse.its.rpi.edu (gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu [128.113.24.33]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA213366 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 22:44:23 -0400 Received: by eclipse.its.rpi.edu (NX5.67e/NX3.0M) id AA05443; Mon, 7 Jul 97 22:44:22 -0400 Message-Id: <9707080244.AA05443@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Garance A Drosehn Date: Mon, 7 Jul 97 22:44:20 -0400 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Of T-shirts, Web Sites, and production... References: Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk > We have seen a promising design which many people have commented > on, but I don't presume that the person who did the design was > necessarily committing to producing and distributing that t-shirt. > Has anyone actually decided to undertake the task? I haven't seen anyone say "I am doing it, get your orders in". > I was somewhat surprised to see Adam's announcement that only 50 > people have expressed an interest on the web site he set up, when > apparently thousands participated in the effort. Am I mistaken > in thinking there were that many involved? There are plenty involved, but many of them may be out-of-touch right now (now that the spring semester is over). Also, it would not surprise me if there are people on this list who would order shirts, but haven't signed up on Adam's web page. (initially I didn't either, because I was expecting a more-detailed web page). I would think that just at RPI we could find buyers for at least 10 T-shirts, and probably more like 20. So, I'm hoping someone is working on the task. Maybe it'd be easier to do if we also distribute some of the logistics of this project. I could buy all the T-shirts for RPI people, for instance, so the main-organizer would only have to send out one package instead of 20. Would that help? --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer (MIME & NeXTmail capable) Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA From owner-deschall-announce Mon Jul 7 23:55:14 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA20170 for deschall-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA20165 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:55:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lucifer.testlab.orst.edu(128.193.78.11) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma020160; Mon, 7 Jul 97 23:54:55 -0400 Received: by lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:10:27 -0700 Message-ID: <71846B925036CF11BD6D00C0D15709291274FA@lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU> From: Adam Haberlach To: "'Duane T Williams'" , deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: RE: Of T-shirts, Web Sites, and production... Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:10:25 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- - -----Original Message----- From: Duane T Williams [SMTP:duane@cmu.edu] Sent: Monday, July 07, 1997 6:51 PM To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Of T-shirts, Web Sites, and production... >I was somewhat surprised to see Adam's announcement that only >50 people >have expressed an interest on the web site he set up, when >apparently >thousands participated in the effort. Am I mistaken in >thinking there were >that many involved? Well, I count at least 77 e-mail addresses on the list, as of 970707 090241 PST. And I have just sent four e-mails telling people that they should show their interest by signing in on the script. NOT BY SENDING A MESSAGE TO THIS LIST. http://www.engr.orst.edu/~haberlad/desch - --- Adam Haberlach http://www.testlab.orst.edu/~haberlaa Free Lottery Tickets! Odds: 1/72,000,000,000,000 http://rc5.distributed.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBM8FaFxSmwqZasiJdAQGI5wP+NhhwMI5M8NviGDg885Rf+p/0pBLYaGCS blC+ruYQR+rQ81E+JRDrHJiGy5IIdN+J5oipsbH82f5WzArqu6pyEaB1LcBf3IUq qgNmC24flsLPs0et9iMTW/JvQr/csCszSpEBFI7A8k0YWG/Y9zTYRkqkCdOV7I2q LCSxCNRFqqQ= =k0pq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 00:07:44 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA20232 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:07:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA20227 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown(207.63.50.199) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma020225; Tue, 8 Jul 97 00:07:22 -0400 Received: from localhost (eyrich@localhost) by brain.hoopeston.k12.il.us (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id XAA13386 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:15:18 -0500 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:15:18 -0500 (CDT) From: "James F. Eyrich" To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk I would like to buy several t - shirts when they become avail. Would it not be better to find an established mail order t-shirt distributor to take care of orders. either through phone or web based orders. lets just agree on a design, i liked the first one (except for wrong spellings) ,and turn it over to a PRO. Then post the order info on the mailing list and the web sight. James Eyrich Network Admin Hoopeston Area Schools From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 00:41:14 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA20313 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:41:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA20308 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:41:13 -0400 (EDT) From: tmccabe@worldnet.att.net Received: from mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(204.127.131.34) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma020306; Tue, 8 Jul 97 00:41:10 -0400 Received: from chaotic ([207.116.55.166]) by mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA8292 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 04:50:22 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970708005005.006e4630@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> X-Sender: tmccabe@postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 00:50:05 -0400 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk http://www.pe.net/~spcltees/ good prices, it looks like they have some experience too... -Andrew At 04:15 AM 7/8/97 +0000, you wrote: >I would like to buy several t - shirts when they become avail. > >Would it not be better to find an established mail order t-shirt >distributor to take care of orders. either through phone or web based >orders. > >lets just agree on a design, i liked the first one (except for wrong >spellings) ,and turn it over to a PRO. Then post the order info on the >mailing list and the web sight. > >James Eyrich >Network Admin >Hoopeston Area Schools > > > From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 00:57:15 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA20385 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:57:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA20380 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:57:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown(128.172.89.118) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma020378; Tue, 8 Jul 97 00:57:03 -0400 Received: from [207.172.61.203] (rcm-as4s12.erols.com [207.172.61.203]) by ratboy.antennahead.com (8.8.0/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA31461; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:27:50 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:23:15 -0400 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: andrew meggs Subject: MacOS DES-->RC5 Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk For some of DESCHALL's MacOS users who might not have gone over to the RC5 effort because of the relative ugliness of the Mac RC5 client, hesitate no more. They now have a new Mac client based on none other than the DESCHALL client that we all came to know and hate, plus some features like graphing and 68k support that would have been in the next DESCHALL update if we hadn't won so soon, plus the great stuff in the v2 RC5 clients like the ability to suspend a block in progress and prefetch a large number of blocks from the server. So if you're got what it takes to do another round of code cracking, hop over to and choose your weapon, then spread the word wherever you can. I know this version is rather late in coming, but I was desperately in need of some time away from computers. p.s. -- I've heard stories that this new PowerMac client was much faster than their old one and that it ate UltraSparcs for breakfast and Alphas for lunch. But that's probably just a rumor. :) ____________________________________________________________________________ Andrew Meggs, content provider Antennahead Industries, Inc. From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 06:34:54 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id GAA21284 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 06:34:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id GAA21279 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 06:34:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail5.netcom.com(192.100.81.141) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma021277; Tue, 8 Jul 97 06:34:31 -0400 Received: from [208.13.202.12] (z013.llsys.com [207.41.48.13]) by mail5.netcom.com (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5/(NETCOM v1.01)) with ESMTP id DAA12571 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 03:43:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 06:43:52 -0400 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: Marc Farnum Rendino Subject: Re: MacOS DES-->RC5 [new Mac client!] Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk At 12:23 AM -0400 on 97/07/08, andrew meggs wrote: > a new Mac client based on none other than the DESCHALL > client that we all came to know THANKS! :) (Sorry to take up a slot, but you deserve it!) - Marc From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 09:44:46 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA22578 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA22573 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:44:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kelso.pclink.com(204.72.134.10) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma022571; Tue, 8 Jul 97 09:44:43 -0400 Received: from ume686jmathe01.sprintspectrum.com (pm2-04 [206.11.0.74]) by pclink.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA01417 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 08:53:54 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970708085548.006c0280@pclink.com> X-Sender: icepick@pclink.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 08:55:48 -0500 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: Icepick Subject: T-shirts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Okay, since everyone else is sitting on their asses, and I want a shirt, I've decided to have some backbone and take the initive. I sent the following message to Jim at http://www.pe.net/~spcltees/ >A group (50-200) of us are looking to get shirts to celebrate our >recent breaking of the RSA Cryptographic Contest. > >As you can imagine, they're is lots of talk, and lots of intrest, >but no one seems to want to do the work of making up a design and/ >or contacting someone to make up the shirts. > >Some one, I don't know who, made these mock-ups, which I've attached. >There are two files, frontandback.jpg, which contains the orginal >design, and newfront.jpg, which contains and improved front design. > > >What I'd like, so that I can have it for my own information, and >to forward it onto the other people intrested is three fold: > >1. Are these images (assuming we get the orginal design files) suitable >for imprinting? > >2. Can you take individual orders/payment and ship identical shirts >to multiple individuals? > >3. What kinda time/costs are we looking at? I've also contacted the author of the orginal design that is posted at: http://slosh.web2010.com/ I prefer the new design for the front, and would like to revamp the back. After all of the bickering about how many domains (if any) or what the format should be, I thought that something like: [heading design} 79 45 81 c0 a0 6e 40 a2 0b e3 33 c6 5c 93 b7 22 aa c2 61 27 ff 72 ac c6 03 68 60 2b 43 99 3c 31 (the encrypted text) 9f 36 e6 ae 82 0c 5d 3f a2 3b b4 91 e5 ef ee a3 b9 92 78 d4 af 0f 66 aa f5 17 e8 64 08 88 82 8d 67 ba fe bf 78 95 60 95 31 6a e2 98 78 1c 6a f7 0x8558891AB0C851B6 (the key) The secret message is: Strong cryptography makes the world a safer place. (the unencrypted text) Would be better. Any Photoshop or arttisic types out there? Whip up a design and send it in. no more no less no fear no need no height no depth too great godspeed Prove RC5 is weak! Break it! http://rc5.distributed.net/ From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 10:10:46 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA22861 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:10:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA22856 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:10:45 -0400 (EDT) From: dpush@mindspring.com Received: from brickbat8.mindspring.com(207.69.200.11) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma022854; Tue, 8 Jul 97 10:10:30 -0400 Received: from [38.27.94.150] (ip150.lansing2.mi.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.94.150]) by brickbat8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09054 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:19:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9707080244.AA05443@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:19:34 -0500 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Of T-shirts, Web Sites, and production... Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk >Maybe it'd be easier to do if we also distribute some of the >logistics of this project. I could buy all the T-shirts for RPI >people, for instance, so the main-organizer would only have to send >out one package instead of 20. Would that help? Yes, it would. Adam's web site is cool and generous. However, somebody has to put up some cash to make these shirts. And, those missing the first ordering round will have to wait for a second, and the price could change, pissing people off in the process. I would be willing to pre-pay. Once we have a design and somebody to oversee the production, requests could be sent along with a money order. Groups, such as RPI could be organized as Garance has suggested, reducing the work load and shipping costs. If we do this COD, then the person who has put up the cash will wait weeks to see it again. Also, I would not be opposed to this person making a fair renumeration for the effort. It will be alot of work and headache. Is this unfair to those who have worked non-gratus(sp?) on the Deschall effort? DPush From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 11:35:48 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA23540 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:35:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA23531 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:35:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca(129.128.5.19) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023528; Tue, 8 Jul 97 11:35:45 -0400 Received: from maildrop.srv.ualberta.ca (pilsener.ucs.ualberta.ca [129.128.76.55]) by quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA24738; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:44:59 -0600 Received: from gpu3.srv.ualberta.ca (gpu3.srv.ualberta.ca [129.128.98.13]) by maildrop.srv.ualberta.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA25720; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:44:57 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:44:57 -0600 (MDT) From: Mark Malowany X-Sender: mmalowan@gpu3.srv.ualberta.ca To: andrew meggs cc: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: MacOS DES-->RC5 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk The new rc5 client rocks! Nifty graphing features are a nice addition to a much needed GUI overhaul (the speed increase and *intuitive* configuration settings are nice, too). kudos antennahead-ers! kudos andrew! cheers marko From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 14:20:52 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA24703 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:20:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA24692 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kelso.pclink.com(204.72.134.10) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma024686; Tue, 8 Jul 97 14:20:42 -0400 Received: from ume686jmathe01.sprintspectrum.com (pm2-21 [206.11.0.91]) by pclink.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA20114 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 13:29:58 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970708133149.006bb3dc@pclink.com> X-Sender: icepick@pclink.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 13:31:49 -0500 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: Icepick Subject: More t-shirt info... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Okay gang, here's the reply I got from the t-shirt place. Now all we need is artwork. I'm a geek, not an artist. >Thank you for contacting us. > >The images should imprint great. Hopefully, you can find the >original files; however, I think we could recreate a suitable >facsimile. > >We can take individual orders and ship directly. > >We would charge $16.50 per t-shirt (S-XL) delivered. Our regular >price for a full imprint front/back is $18.00 but since there are so >many of you, we will offer a reduced price. We generally ship the >day following receipt of payment (check). Add $2.00 for XXL and >$3.00 for XXXL. > >One option to consider is, we could put a small version of the >front image on the shirt front where a pocket would be and the full >imprint on the back for $15.00 each delivered. > >Look forward to hearing from you. no more no less no fear no need no height no depth too great godspeed Prove RC5 is weak! Break it! http://rc5.distributed.net/ From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 15:14:23 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id PAA25192 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:14:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id PAA25182 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:14:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from comp.uark.edu(130.184.252.197) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma025176; Tue, 8 Jul 97 15:14:04 -0400 Received: from gibx.uark.edu (dsf@nemesis.uark.edu [130.184.221.8]) by comp.uark.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA06098 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:23:18 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:23:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Scott Fendley X-Sender: dsf@gibx.uark.edu To: DES Challenge List Subject: Re: More t-shirt info... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970708133149.006bb3dc@pclink.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 8 Jul 1997, Icepick wrote: > Okay gang, here's the reply I got from the t-shirt place. > Now all we need is artwork. I'm a geek, not an artist. Kewl deal. Now if we can fix up the artwork in the next few days, we might all have our t-shirts ready by the end of next week. Who helped make the original design? Scott Fendley From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 16:37:24 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA25781 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:37:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA25776 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from f.gp.cs.cmu.edu(128.2.250.164) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma025774; Tue, 8 Jul 97 16:37:02 -0400 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:40:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Duane Williams Subject: Re: T-shirts To: Icepick , deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Message-Id: <868394400/dtw@F.GP.CS.CMU.EDU> In-Reply-To: Icepick's message of Tue, 08 Jul 1997 085548 -0500 Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Now that we know where we can get the t-shirts made and about what it will cost, it seems to me that it would be appropriate for there to be some consensus on what the design should be. I think lots of people liked the original design, although there were suggestions for minor changes, e.g., lining up the columns on the back and including the winning site. I have seen little, if any, commentary on the alternative front design. Running off and getting a t-shirt made that people haven't expressed approval of is probably not a good idea. Personally I liked the original design better than any alternatives I've seen or heard described, and only designs for which there exists graphics really count. -Duane From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 16:37:54 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA25796 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:37:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA25791 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:37:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from krim.seanet.com(199.181.164.11) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma025782; Tue, 8 Jul 97 16:37:41 -0400 Received: from megacity ([198.107.212.235]) by krim.seanet.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) with SMTP id NAA08602; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 13:29:39 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970708132735.0080e430@seanet.com> X-Sender: plexus@seanet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 13:27:36 -0700 To: Icepick From: James Johnson Subject: Re: More t-shirt info... Cc: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Excellent. Thank you for taking the inititive! I also like your idea for the back of the shirt. It is meaningful. At 01:31 PM 7/8/97 -0500, you wrote: >Okay gang, here's the reply I got from the t-shirt place. >Now all we need is artwork. I'm a geek, not an artist. > > >>Thank you for contacting us. >> >>The images should imprint great. Hopefully, you can find the >>original files; however, I think we could recreate a suitable >>facsimile. >> >>We can take individual orders and ship directly. >> >>We would charge $16.50 per t-shirt (S-XL) delivered. Our regular >>price for a full imprint front/back is $18.00 but since there are so >>many of you, we will offer a reduced price. We generally ship the >>day following receipt of payment (check). Add $2.00 for XXL and >>$3.00 for XXXL. >> >>One option to consider is, we could put a small version of the >>front image on the shirt front where a pocket would be and the full >>imprint on the back for $15.00 each delivered. >> >>Look forward to hearing from you. > > >no more no less no fear no need no height no depth too great godspeed >Prove RC5 is weak! Break it! http://rc5.distributed.net/ > > ;----------------------------------------------- cwd ; "Do or do not. There is xor ax,dx ; no try." Yoda sub ax,dx ; mov Power,ax ; plexus@seanet.com ;----------------------------------------------- From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 16:43:24 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA25860 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:43:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA25855 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:43:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu(128.113.100.7) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma025853; Tue, 8 Jul 97 16:43:00 -0400 Received: from eclipse.its.rpi.edu (gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu [128.113.24.33]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA210234 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:52:12 -0400 Received: by eclipse.its.rpi.edu (NX5.67e/NX3.0M) id AA11783; Tue, 8 Jul 97 16:52:10 -0400 Message-Id: <9707082052.AA11783@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Garance A Drosehn Date: Tue, 8 Jul 97 16:52:07 -0400 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: T-shirts References: <3.0.1.32.19970708085548.006c0280@pclink.com> Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Icepick writes: > I've also contacted the author of the orginal design that is > posted at: > > http://slosh.web2010.com/ > > I prefer the new design for the front, I kinda prefer the new design too, although I think we might want to have the "break" done differently. The way the "E" is broken on this design, it's possible to think the word is "DIES" and not "DES". I think I'd rather have a horizontal break (across all of DES) instead of a vertical break thru the "E". > and would like to revamp the back. After all of the bickering > about how many domains (if any) or what the format should be, I > thought that something like: I think the back as shown on the web page is a better starting point. I think we should drop the key-count, keep the rankings, and see if we can't list at least a few more site-names there. I also think the name of the "winning" site should be included. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer (MIME & NeXTmail capable) Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 16:50:25 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA25950 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:50:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA25939 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:50:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu(128.113.100.7) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma025930; Tue, 8 Jul 97 16:50:10 -0400 Received: from cortez.sss.rpi.edu (gentrj@cortez.sss.rpi.edu [128.113.113.33]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA77394; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:58:46 -0400 From: Jester Received: (gentrj@localhost) by cortez.sss.rpi.edu (8.8.5/8.6.4) id QAA119444; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:58:45 -0400 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:58:45 -0400 Message-Id: <199707082058.QAA119444@cortez.sss.rpi.edu> To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com, duane+@cmu.edu, icepick@pclink.com Subject: Re: T-shirts Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk > Personally I liked the original design better than any alternatives > I've seen or heard described, and only designs for which there exists > graphics really count. I agree about the original design being the best I've seen proposed, IMO. However, perhpas a quick and dirty vote could be taken, between the original and a few of the other suggestions. Jeff From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 17:08:25 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA26080 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:08:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA26071 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:08:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esinet1.esinet.net(208.197.151.2) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma026067; Tue, 8 Jul 97 17:08:03 -0400 Received: from onsite1 (dialin37.max4048.esinet.net [208.197.151.164]) by esinet1.esinet.net (8.8.6/ESI-8.8.X-A) with ESMTP id RAA26701; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:17:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707082117.RAA26701@esinet1.esinet.net> From: "Arvin Meyer" To: "Icepick" Cc: "DES" Subject: Re: More t-shirt info... Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:17:14 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1160 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk I contacted my cousin in the advertising specialty (read T-Shirt) business, who gave me a price for a Hanes 50/50 shirt, 4 color imprint on the front, 1 color on back, sizes S-XL $14.50 delivered, add $2 for 2XL and $3 for 3XL. Black or other dark colors with white lettering same prices but only 1 color, add .50 cents for each additional color (probably an extra dollar total since you'd only print 3 colors) The second design (just the pocket area on the front, 4 color, full imprint on back 1 color) would be $1.50 cheaper. That is $2 less than the previous quote, made possible because he normally only handles larger jobs. (They can print up to 5000 shirts a day). He needs firm artwork, and no order will be shipped without a check in advance (no CODs) If you all are interested, let me know via this list. I won't add anything for my effort. The only thing I will do is set up the orders and labels. It will take about 3 weeks from start to finish. If you could order as many as possible by domain, that would help too. I've wanted a T-Shirt since I started cracking code over 2 months ago. Let's do it! Arvin Meyer onsite@esinet.net ---------- > From: Icepick > To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com > Subject: More t-shirt info... > Date: Tuesday, July 08, 1997 2:31 PM > > Okay gang, here's the reply I got from the t-shirt place. > Now all we need is artwork. I'm a geek, not an artist. > > > >Thank you for contacting us. > > > >The images should imprint great. Hopefully, you can find the > >original files; however, I think we could recreate a suitable > >facsimile. > > > >We can take individual orders and ship directly. > > > >We would charge $16.50 per t-shirt (S-XL) delivered. Our regular > >price for a full imprint front/back is $18.00 but since there are so > >many of you, we will offer a reduced price. We generally ship the > >day following receipt of payment (check). Add $2.00 for XXL and > >$3.00 for XXXL. > > > >One option to consider is, we could put a small version of the > >front image on the shirt front where a pocket would be and the full > >imprint on the back for $15.00 each delivered. > > > >Look forward to hearing from you. > > > no more no less no fear no need no height no depth too great godspeed > Prove RC5 is weak! Break it! http://rc5.distributed.net/ From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 17:15:27 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA26187 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:15:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA26182 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:15:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu(128.113.100.7) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma026180; Tue, 8 Jul 97 17:15:04 -0400 Received: from eclipse.its.rpi.edu (gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu [128.113.24.33]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA68852 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:24:19 -0400 Received: by eclipse.its.rpi.edu (NX5.67e/NX3.0M) id AA12006; Tue, 8 Jul 97 17:24:17 -0400 Message-Id: <9707082124.AA12006@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Garance A Drosehn Date: Tue, 8 Jul 97 17:24:15 -0400 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: T-shirts References: <868394400/dtw@F.GP.CS.CMU.EDU> Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk > I have seen little, if any, commentary on the alternative front > design. Running off and getting a t-shirt made that people > haven't expressed approval of is probably not a good idea. > > Personally I liked the original design better than any alternatives > I've seen or heard described, and only designs for which there > exists graphics really count. The site which had the original design now has two alternatives for the front of the T-shirt. Either of them would be fine with me, and I slightly prefer the newer one over the older one. And as I mentioned in my previous message, I think the "break" in the newer design should be horizontal instead of vertical, as the current break makes "DES" look more like "DIES". --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer (MIME & NeXTmail capable) Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 17:22:57 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA26219 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:22:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA26214 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:22:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com(17.254.0.51) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma026212; Tue, 8 Jul 97 17:22:51 -0400 Received: from scv2.apple.com (A17-128-100-140.apple.com [17.128.100.140]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA42522 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:29:51 -0700 Received: from [17.202.42.151] (robbjo2.apple.com [17.202.42.151]) by scv2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA29488 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:30:06 -0700 Message-Id: <199707082130.OAA29488@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Re: T-shirts Date: Tue, 8 Jul 97 14:34:03 -0700 x-sender: robins@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Joe Robins To: "DesChall" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On 7/8/97 1:40 PM, Duane Williams wrote: >Now that we know where we can get the t-shirts made and about what it >will cost, it seems to me that it would be appropriate for there to be >some consensus on what the design should be. > >I think lots of people liked the original design, although there were >suggestions for minor changes, e.g., lining up the columns on the back >and including the winning site. > >I have seen little, if any, commentary on the alternative front design. >Running off and getting a t-shirt made that people haven't expressed >approval of is probably not a good idea. > >Personally I liked the original design better than any alternatives >I've seen or heard described, and only designs for which there exists >graphics really count. > >-Duane Personally, I prefer the alternative back that was suggested: The encrypted message, the number of keys, the correct key, and the decrypted message. I find that much preferable to a list of domains. Joe Robins Apple Computer, Inc. robins@apple.com (408)-974-3191 From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 17:50:57 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA26386 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:50:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA26381 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:50:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esinet1.esinet.net(208.197.151.2) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma026379; Tue, 8 Jul 97 17:50:42 -0400 Received: from onsite1 (dialin3.max4048.esinet.net [208.197.151.130]) by esinet1.esinet.net (8.8.6/ESI-8.8.X-A) with ESMTP id RAA27752 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:47:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707082147.RAA27752@esinet1.esinet.net> From: "Arvin Meyer" To: "DES" Subject: T-Shirts Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:47:47 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1160 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Are there any objections to a comma separated list of all the domains that will fit on the back, starting with the largest crackers and going from there? Left to right, and listing as many as we can? Arvin Meyer onsite@esinet.net From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 17:58:28 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA26428 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:58:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA26423 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:58:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from news.mtu.edu(141.219.70.11) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma026421; Tue, 8 Jul 97 17:58:10 -0400 Received: from mtu.edu (mtu.edu [141.219.70.1]) by news.mtu.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA19094 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:07:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jachsys.resnet.mtu.edu (jachim@jachsys.resnet.mtu.edu [141.219.81.124]) by mtu.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id SAA03732 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:07:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:08:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew T. Jachimstal" To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: T-shirts (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Tue, 8 Jul 1997, Joe Robins wrote: > Personally, I prefer the alternative back that was suggested: The > encrypted message, the number of keys, the correct key, and the decrypted > message. I find that much preferable to a list of domains. I agree with this. That way there is no rivalry about how many domains to list on the back. I'd like to have the domains, since mtu.edu is up there, but I think this would satisfy more people, and it's a pretty good idea. Matthew - -- "Press that panel and pray very, very fast." Lennier, Babylon 5 | Matthew T. Jachimstal N9LMW CS Major Michigan Technological University | Secretary/Treasurer MTU Student Chapter of ACM email: mtjachim@mtu.edu | Voice: 906-487-3997 <*> [\] WWW: http://jachsys.resnet.mtu.edu | PGP ID: 683F741D FP: 8B 6A 03 A3 E2 5C 71 64 93 D0 22 17 0E 2B C6 AF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Encrypted email vastly preferred. iQEVAwUBM8K6SgGqm95oP3QdAQFISQf+O3vunbEh2rILCHNFugNWvS6OgmnLYmK/ AZ69k0XfZ2ukzoUGDHRQrH9kyP7eh/jhY0PHbzmSWlh59gm70LZ4xxjJKuyCG0h9 FeSGHP9UW+V1OSZL0zM1X96PxfQRfFOSlcxnSKT/jMiylSe2Zw7Tvpf+GbFnBClD 8BwFDNpsGYXcKYjNA3GlxUdnN3hyhTlc9xjSo3BWO54SeEZWTKMMVnoJU1651s2S F0iElik/YOH8mmuc+bZx8wFbgSNW8mZBE/r16Zqt/6bjTu9N/9w98N6X3wbRVCpj XotCQGV1SdUQ+GLhfM2+wS4hYebU1pvYkT8ltAjiAcW2C9OFCTzKlA== =Mygq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 18:06:28 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA26477 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:06:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA26472 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:06:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pinotnoir.media.mit.edu(18.85.16.104) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma026470; Tue, 8 Jul 97 18:06:09 -0400 Received: (from nelson@localhost) by pinotnoir.media.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.4) id SAA20577; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:15:20 -0400 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:15:20 -0400 Message-Id: <199707082215.SAA20577@pinotnoir.media.mit.edu> From: nelson@media.mit.edu (Nelson Minar) To: "Arvin Meyer" Cc: "DES" Subject: Re: T-Shirts In-Reply-To: <199707082147.RAA27752@esinet1.esinet.net> References: <199707082147.RAA27752@esinet1.esinet.net> Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Hey, is this list going to be a t-shirt discussion list from now on? If no one has anything else to talk about, I'll sign off now. From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 18:22:58 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA26593 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:22:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA26588 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:22:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from krim.seanet.com(199.181.164.11) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma026586; Tue, 8 Jul 97 18:22:30 -0400 Received: from megacity ([198.107.212.235]) by krim.seanet.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) with SMTP id PAA27194; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:16:23 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970708151419.00885160@seanet.com> X-Sender: plexus@seanet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 15:14:19 -0700 To: Joe Robins From: James Johnson Subject: Re: T-shirts Cc: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk So do I. Let just do it! At 02:34 PM 7/8/97 -0700, you wrote: > >Personally, I prefer the alternative back that was suggested: The >encrypted message, the number of keys, the correct key, and the decrypted >message. I find that much preferable to a list of domains. > ;----------------------------------------------- cwd ; "Do or do not. There is xor ax,dx ; no try." Yoda sub ax,dx ; mov Power,ax ; plexus@seanet.com ;----------------------------------------------- From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 18:32:59 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA26625 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:32:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA26615 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:32:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kelso.pclink.com(204.72.134.10) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma026611; Tue, 8 Jul 97 18:32:45 -0400 Received: from beast (icepick@pm2-28 [206.11.0.98]) by pclink.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA04222 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:42:03 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970708173732.00715cd8@pclink.com> X-Sender: icepick@pclink.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 17:37:32 -0500 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: Icepick Subject: Re: T-Shirts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 17:34:11 -0500 To: "Arvin Meyer" From: Icepick Subject: Re: T-Shirts In-Reply-To: <199707082147.RAA27752@esinet1.esinet.net> At 05:47 PM 7/8/97 -0400, you wrote: >Are there any objections to a comma separated list of all the domains that >will fit on the back, starting with the largest crackers and going from >there? Left to right, and listing as many as we can? > Yes. I have numerious objections to the domain list: 1. We won't be able to list 'em all, so someone will always be bitchin' for us to "add just one more" 2. It's busy looking, and non-appealing to the eye. 3. Should/shouldn't we list the keys? What day? How about the rates? In what order? Totals or just for the last day? While I wouldn't mind seeing pclink.com on the back, I'm not going to fight for it. I think that a simple design that can be easily explained is better. My shirt is going to be used to attract attention to our effort, and it'd be great to have an example to what we did rather than a complicated list of the participants. no more no less no fear no need no height no depth too great godspeed Thumb your nose at the man! Help crack RC5! http://rc5.distributed.net From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 18:33:04 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA26633 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:33:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA26616 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:32:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kelso.pclink.com(204.72.134.10) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma026612; Tue, 8 Jul 97 18:32:51 -0400 Received: from beast (icepick@pm2-28 [206.11.0.98]) by pclink.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA04225; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:42:05 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970708174021.00715cd8@pclink.com> X-Sender: icepick@pclink.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 17:40:21 -0500 To: James Johnson , Joe Robins From: Icepick Subject: Re: T-shirts Cc: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970708151419.00885160@seanet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk At 03:14 PM 7/8/97 -0700, James Johnson wrote: > >So do I. Let just do it! > Okay, it seems to me that (nearly) everyone still on this list wants a shirt. After two weeks or so of talking about it, little has been done. This is a classic example of the "too many cooks in the kitchen" syndrome. If you want a shirt and are artisic, make up a .jpg or a .gif, and post it somewhere. Once we have artwork, we can send it in, and everyone can start ordering. If no artwork gets made up, no shirts will get made up. Simple enough. >At 02:34 PM 7/8/97 -0700, you wrote: >> >>Personally, I prefer the alternative back that was suggested: The >>encrypted message, the number of keys, the correct key, and the decrypted >>message. I find that much preferable to a list of domains. >> no more no less no fear no need no height no depth too great godspeed Thumb your nose at the man! Help crack RC5! http://rc5.distributed.net From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 18:36:58 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA26662 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:36:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA26657 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:36:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from friley72-temp.res.iastate.edu(129.186.78.72) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma026654; Tue, 8 Jul 97 18:36:49 -0400 Received: from localhost (vorlon@localhost) by cozad.dodds.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA14214 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:46:04 -0500 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:46:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Langasek To: DES Subject: Re: T-Shirts In-Reply-To: <199707082147.RAA27752@esinet1.esinet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 8 Jul 1997, Arvin Meyer wrote: > Are there any objections to a comma separated list of all the domains that > will fit on the back, starting with the largest crackers and going from > there? Left to right, and listing as many as we can? My personal preference would be to have a whitespace-separated listing of the level-2 domains, arranged in columns. -Steve Langasek -doink- From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 18:58:31 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA26858 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:58:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA26828 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:58:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from friley72-temp.res.iastate.edu(129.186.78.72) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma026812; Tue, 8 Jul 97 18:58:00 -0400 Received: from localhost (vorlon@localhost) by cozad.dodds.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA14417 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:07:16 -0500 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:07:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Langasek To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: More t-shirt info... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970708133149.006bb3dc@pclink.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk For all those who are so eagerly pursuing the production of t-shirts, I would mention that there is at least one other t-shirt design currently in the works. It is, of course, up to the community to decide whether its worth their while to wait, I'm merely offering one more option. I was personally not entirely satisfied with the designs that have been offered up; IMO, they were too bright and cheery. :) YMMV.. -Steve Langasek -doink- From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 19:16:09 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA27236 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 19:16:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA27231 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 19:16:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kelly.iaonline.com(206.68.129.7) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma027228; Tue, 8 Jul 97 19:16:01 -0400 Received: from drizzt.iaonline.com (dialup17.iaonline.com [206.68.128.195]) by kelly.iaonline.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA21000 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:25:45 -0500 Message-Id: <199707082325.SAA21000@kelly.iaonline.com> From: "Michael R. McClelland" To: Subject: Vote For T-shirt design... Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:20:45 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Let's just force a vote. Winning design gets sent to T-shirt place(stamped "Official") along with list of email addresses to spam. Anyone who wants one buys it from the T-shirt place. Anyone who wants their own favorite design can copy it from the web page and have it done themselves. Interest in T-shirts is dying fast. That's why they sell them at the concert when enthusiasm is peaked. I can't believe this thing is still dragging on. Someone take charge and put this to rest, please! If you're depending on this list to sell T-shirts, it's too late. I don't think anyone who participated in the effort would mind getting a message asking if they wanted a shirt. Matt could produce such a list from past subscribers, theoretically. I've been waiting for the outcome so I can get a shirt and unsubscribe this list. I have put together some links to various distributed computing related sites: (both addresses should be the same) http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/1124/distrib.html http://www.iaonline.com/users/drizzt/distrib.html Please send your favorites and I'll include them too. Sincerely, mike-mcclelland@usa.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/1124/ The Lightning in a BrainStorm is caused by Eclectricityİ From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 19:23:39 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA27255 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 19:23:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA27250 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 19:23:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kelso.pclink.com(204.72.134.10) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma027248; Tue, 8 Jul 97 19:23:28 -0400 Received: from beast (icepick@pm2-28 [206.11.0.98]) by pclink.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA06904; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:32:38 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970708183056.00712f94@pclink.com> X-Sender: icepick@pclink.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 18:30:56 -0500 To: "Michael R. McClelland" , From: Icepick Subject: Re: Vote For T-shirt design... In-Reply-To: <199707082325.SAA21000@kelly.iaonline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk At 06:20 PM 7/8/97 -0500, Michael R. McClelland wrote: >Let's just force a vote. Winning design gets sent to T-shirt place(stamped >"Official") along with list of email addresses to spam. Anyone who wants >one buys it from the T-shirt place. Anyone who wants their own favorite Okay great. Now where's the designs to vote on? no more no less no fear no need no height no depth too great godspeed Thumb your nose at the man! Help crack RC5! http://rc5.distributed.net From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 19:30:40 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA27290 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 19:30:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA27283 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 19:30:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kelso.pclink.com(204.72.134.10) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma027279; Tue, 8 Jul 97 19:30:12 -0400 Received: from beast (icepick@pm2-28 [206.11.0.98]) by pclink.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA07467 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:39:30 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970708183720.00713004@pclink.com> X-Sender: icepick@pclink.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 18:37:20 -0500 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: Icepick Subject: New shirt idea Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk "10,000 computers spent countless hours running hand optimized assembly, we broke the code, we won the 10 grand, and we couldn't even decide on the t-shirt..." no more no less no fear no need no height no depth too great godspeed Thumb your nose at the man! Help crack RC5! http://rc5.distributed.net From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 20:02:40 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id UAA27445 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:02:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id UAA27440 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:02:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail-out1.apple.com(17.254.0.52) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma027438; Tue, 8 Jul 97 20:02:10 -0400 Received: from scv2.apple.com (A17-128-100-140.apple.com [17.128.100.140]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA16220 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:08:53 -0700 Received: from [17.202.42.151] (robbjo2.apple.com [17.202.42.151]) by scv2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA19076 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:09:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199707090009.RAA19076@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Re: Vote For T-shirt design... Date: Tue, 8 Jul 97 17:13:29 -0700 x-sender: robins@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Joe Robins To: "DesChall" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On 7/8/97 4:30 PM, Icepick wrote: >At 06:20 PM 7/8/97 -0500, Michael R. McClelland wrote: >>Let's just force a vote. Winning design gets sent to T-shirt place(stamped >>"Official") along with list of email addresses to spam. Anyone who wants >>one buys it from the T-shirt place. Anyone who wants their own favorite > >Okay great. > >Now where's the designs to vote on? Ahh... That's the problem. Some of them haven't been made, yet. In fact, as far as I've seen, only one design has been made, though another idea has been suggested and liked by several people (including myself). Joe Robins Apple Computer, Inc. robins@apple.com (408)-974-3191 From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 20:07:40 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id UAA27464 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:07:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id UAA27459 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:07:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gw.research.megasoft.com(206.230.35.93) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma027457; Tue, 8 Jul 97 20:07:13 -0400 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gw.research.megasoft.com (8.7.5/8.7.3-cmcurtin) id UAA15657; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:29:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from goffette.research.megasoft.com(192.168.1.2) by gw.research.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma015653; Tue, 8 Jul 97 20:29:13 -0400 Received: (from cmcurtin@localhost) by goffette.research.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA06097; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:13:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:13:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707090013.UAA06097@goffette.research.megasoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: C Matthew Curtin To: Duane T Williams Cc: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: The DESCHALL T Shirt In-Reply-To: References: <71846B925036CF11BD6D00C0D15709290BF75B@lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid X-Face: "&>g(&eGr?u^F:nFihL%BsyS1[tCqG7}I2rGk4{aKJ5I_5A\*6RYn4"N.`1pPF9LO!Fa<(gj:12)?=uP2l01e10Gij"7j&-)torL^iBrNf\s7PDLm=rf[PjxtSbZ{J(@@j"q2/iV9^Mx>>>> "Duane" == Duane T Williams writes: Duane> Has anyone actually decided to undertake the task? Where's Joel Furr when you need him? I don't believe anyone has volunteered, though I think someone is going to have to take the bull by the proverbial horns and just do it. The process should happen thusly: o One person is given responsibility of T shirt production and related details. Anyone who is willing to do this, please email me personally. This is a good opportunity for someone who was interested in doing more than running the client, but couldn't for whatever reason, to do something cool. If someone isn't decided on by 23:59 ET Thursday, I'll see to the details of getting the shirt done. As usual, I'm buried up to my eyeballs, so I'm not too keen on doing it, but I'd rather do it myself over having it not be done at all. o Once that person is decided, there should be a request for designs that lasts about one week. (i.e., opened Monday and closed Friday is close enough to a week). o The "winning" design will be put up on a web site, so everyone can see it. Cost estimates will be made, a price set, and orders will be taken. o Order should be taken for at least a month. The size of the batch will have a great deal of difference on the price, so the precise number of the batch will need to be determined, and whether that one month means one batch or more will, of course, be determined by interest level. Duane> I was somewhat surprised to see Adam's announcement that only Duane> 50 people have expressed an interest on the web site he set up, Duane> when apparently thousands participated in the effort. There are probably a lot of people who just didn't go and hit it. I'm probably one of these guilty parties; I always meant to, but don't know if I ever did. Duane> Am I mistaken in thinking there were that many involved? If the mailing list size is any indication, "thousands" might just barely be accurate. (i.e., most of our numbers probably came from a small number of people running an average of 10-20 hosts each.) At peak, deschall and deschall-announce had about 500 (give or take 50) unique addresses. -- Matt Curtin Chief Scientist Megasoft Online cmcurtin@research.megasoft.com http://www.research.megasoft.com/people/cmcurtin/ I speak only for myself Pull AGIS.NET's plug! DES has fallen! http://www.frii.com/~rcv/deschall.htm From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 20:16:11 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id UAA27518 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:16:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id UAA27510 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:16:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown(207.63.50.199) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma027488; Tue, 8 Jul 97 20:15:39 -0400 Received: from localhost (eyrich@localhost) by brain.hoopeston.k12.il.us (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id TAA05178 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 19:23:36 -0500 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 19:23:36 -0500 (CDT) From: "James F. Eyrich" Reply-To: "James F. Eyrich" To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk could the person who designed the first t-shirt please send me the artwork. or at least contact me. James eyrich From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 22:43:47 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA28104 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:43:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA28099 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cmu1.acs.cmu.edu(128.2.35.186) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma028097; Tue, 8 Jul 97 22:43:43 -0400 Received: from [128.2.120.3] (CREAMOFWHEAT-3.SLIP.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.120.3]) by cmu1.acs.cmu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id WAA10106 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:52:56 -0400 X-Sender: dtw@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199707090009.RAA19076@scv2.apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:51:52 -0400 To: "DesChall" From: Duane T Williams Subject: Re: Vote For T-shirt design... Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk >Ahh... That's the problem. Some of them haven't been made, yet. In >fact, as far as I've seen, only one design has been made, though another >idea has been suggested and liked by several people (including myself). > >Joe Robins Someone who likes it should fire up PhotoShop and make it. It didn't sound like a design that required an artist. It doesn't make a lot of sense for people to post verbal descriptions of designs, as if we had a artist at hand to make up whatever is described. We obviously have no such artist. People should post pictures of their ideas if they want them to be taken seriously. -Duane From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 22:55:23 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA28152 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:55:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA28141 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:55:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lucifer.testlab.orst.edu(128.193.78.11) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma028137; Tue, 8 Jul 97 22:55:10 -0400 Received: by lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:10:47 -0700 Message-ID: <71846B925036CF11BD6D00C0D15709290BF760@lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU> From: Adam Haberlach To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: RE: T-shirts Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:10:45 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- - -----Original Message----- From: Duane Williams [SMTP:duane+@cmu.edu] Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 1997 1:40 PM To: Icepick; deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: T-shirts >Now that we know where we can get the t-shirts made and about >what it >will cost, it seems to me that it would be appropriate for >there to be >some consensus on what the design should be. Forget it. We can't decide what order to put the names in. >I think lots of people liked the original design, although >there were >suggestions for minor changes, e.g., lining up the columns on >the back >and including the winning site. Who cares. Someone should make the shirt. >I have seen little, if any, commentary on the alternative front >design. >Running off and getting a t-shirt made that people haven't >expressed >approval of is probably not a good idea. It isn't a good idea, but at this point, it is all we have. I have a list of at least 90 people interested in shirts, many of which are interested in more then one. If someone will come up with a design, or has enough spine to tell everyone else that their design is the one that is going to be done, we've got ourselves a T-shirt. If we keep trying to make this a consensus, we're all going to be wearing RC5 victory shirts when we do. One of the reasons we won is that Rocke started early--and he didn't keep asking people how they wanted their clients to look or how to do things. We need someone who knows shirts to design one. We need someone who produces shirts and sells them to sell the design. I have done all that I can--I collected enough data to prove that there are interested people. Let's get this done. - --- Adam Haberlach http://www.testlab.orst.edu/~haberlaa Free Lottery Tickets! Odds: 1/72,000,000,000,000 http://rc5.distributed.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBM8KZbRSmwqZasiJdAQHNCAP/f9uPrN1zLJ1Y7K60/OtD8bjLMQZEbmwL wTFk8Ku1+SMqTuE1jnk7r7nqLyNSojDzLVdaE4BfXWpBM3O53NXv59Om9wvcjuyC P/oX0tI1YG8GMRs5eeD6An4kQrstyQpQXEO8CKon3gVtbOwjwROsh/kO862DiEGf QuVaIulrS8M= =dYWu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 22:55:18 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA28151 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:55:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA28142 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:55:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lucifer.testlab.orst.edu(128.193.78.11) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma028138; Tue, 8 Jul 97 22:55:12 -0400 Received: by lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:10:49 -0700 Message-ID: <71846B925036CF11BD6D00C0D15709290BF761@lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU> From: Adam Haberlach To: Joe Robins , DesChall Subject: RE: Vote For T-shirt design... Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:10:47 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- - -----Original Message----- From: Joe Robins [SMTP:robins@apple.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 1997 5:13 PM To: DesChall Subject: Re: Vote For T-shirt design... On 7/8/97 4:30 PM, Icepick wrote: >>Okay great. >> >>Now where's the designs to vote on? >Ahh... That's the problem. Some of them haven't been made, >yet. In >fact, as far as I've seen, only one design has been made, >though another >idea has been suggested and liked by several people (including >myself). Simple vote, then. I guess we've all voted for the EXISTING design. Now let's produce the damn thing. - --- Adam Haberlach http://www.testlab.orst.edu/~haberlaa Free Lottery Tickets! Odds: 1/72,000,000,000,000 http://rc5.distributed.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBM8KaNhSmwqZasiJdAQGf0QQAkPPXwuVkmNlBNyFSno3vSD08oYitL/5M lsMrczMaCwkLAZPaqYF+pO+qb6h//ThAGNxhAONaDTr1fEHg6QvEBAH4cbJHTXUr b5RqDmwcFzAItseUbX55BIRQTYiMbNI60B80Nw3/y5CCJ776l6hSwRfnKqRzWGuO 3ZCHio04OTw= =ldRt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 23:32:18 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA28315 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 23:32:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA28310 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 23:32:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from natasha.eden.com(199.171.21.14) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma028308; Tue, 8 Jul 97 23:32:11 -0400 Received: from net-7-170.austin.eden.com (net-7-170.austin.eden.com [206.81.247.170]) by natasha.eden.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA25181 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:41:26 -0500 (CDT) From: charris@eden.com (Carol Harris) To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: More t-shirt info... Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 03:43:10 GMT Message-ID: <33c50722.2788040@mail.eden.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19970708133149.006bb3dc@pclink.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970708133149.006bb3dc@pclink.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk OK, looks like we've got at least two t-shirt producers willing=20 to take on the job. Perhaps we should try a different kind of vote on the t-shirt=20 design. I've seen lots of suggestions for improvements, etc. =20 Obviously, we're never going to have a perfect design that=20 pleases everyone. So, does anybody really Hate the original design? Carol Harris charris@eden.com From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 23:39:48 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA28339 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 23:39:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA28334 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 23:39:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown(208.197.151.2) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma028332; Tue, 8 Jul 97 23:39:18 -0400 Received: from onsite1 (dialin28.max4048.esinet.net [208.197.151.155]) by esinet1.esinet.net (8.8.6/ESI-8.8.X-A) with ESMTP id XAA07537; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 23:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707090348.XAA07537@esinet1.esinet.net> From: "Arvin Meyer" To: "Adam Haberlach" Cc: "DES" Subject: Re: Vote For T-shirt design... Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 23:48:30 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1160 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk ---------- > From: Adam Haberlach > To: Joe Robins ; DesChall > Subject: RE: Vote For T-shirt design... > Date: Tuesday, July 08, 1997 11:10 PM > Simple vote, then. I guess we've all voted for the EXISTING > design. Now let's produce the damn thing. The problem with this is that the guy who did that design owns the copyright. He has not responded to e-mails, phone calls, or faxes to see whether he wants to do it himself, or have someone else do it. He was supposed to have mailed a disk a week and a half ago, but hasn't. The only reason that I know he even exists is his web site. Arvin Meyer On-Site Solutions Database Development - NT Systems Engineering "The question for your company isn't: 'Where do you want to go today?' but Where do you have to be tomorrow?" e-mail: onsite@esinet.net phone: (804) 973-9140 http://www.esinet.net/cabg/consult/onsite.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 9 00:11:19 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA28419 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 00:11:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA28414 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 00:11:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cmu1.acs.cmu.edu(128.2.35.186) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma028412; Wed, 9 Jul 97 00:10:59 -0400 Received: from [128.2.120.3] (CREAMOFWHEAT-3.SLIP.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.120.3]) by cmu1.acs.cmu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id AAA11435 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 00:19:57 -0400 X-Sender: dtw@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <71846B925036CF11BD6D00C0D15709290BF761@lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 00:10:49 -0400 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: Duane T Williams Subject: RE: Vote For T-shirt design... Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Adam Haberlach wrote: >I guess we've all voted for the EXISTING >design. Now let's produce the damn thing. We have not all voted for it, as evidenced by the fact that several people have expressed a desire for an alternative. It is not obvious to me that everyone who expressed an interest in a t-shift at Adam's web site is willing to buy any design whatsoever that someone produces. I think that Matt Curtin had the right idea. Whoever is willing to undertake overseeing the production of the shirt should step forward right away. We should select one such person and then we should have a one week period for people to submit graphic (not verbal) designs. Then we should vote and the winning design can be offered for sale. Duane From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 9 01:18:03 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id BAA28895 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 01:18:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id BAA28890 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 01:18:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu(198.82.160.250) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma028888; Wed, 9 Jul 97 01:17:50 -0400 Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA07688 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 01:27:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from colemana (spk-107.cet.com [206.96.90.107]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA28072 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 01:27:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970708222554.006adf70@mail.vt.edu> X-Sender: sccolema@mail.vt.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 22:25:54 -0700 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: scott coleman Subject: more tshirt designs (2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk I've thrown together two simple tshirt designs that get the point across. Some have said "too simple". Judge for yourself. http://www.geocities.com/collegepark/quad/5068/des_tshirt.html Thanks in advance for checking them out! So, you thought 72 quadrillion was a big number? THINK AGAIN. _ _ ___ ___ ___ | |_| |_ scott coleman z@vt.edu / __|/ __/ _ \| __| __| washington water power \__ \ (_| (_) | |_| |_ junior, virginia tech |___/\___\___/ \__|\__| computer engineering From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 9 02:31:34 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id CAA29194 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 02:31:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id CAA29189 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 02:31:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from natasha.eden.com(199.171.21.14) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma029187; Wed, 9 Jul 97 02:31:19 -0400 Received: from net-5-053.austin.eden.com (net-5-053.austin.eden.com [206.81.247.53]) by natasha.eden.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA08760 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 01:40:33 -0500 (CDT) From: charris@eden.com (Carol Harris) To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: more tshirt designs (2) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 06:42:19 GMT Message-ID: <33c332bc.13951905@mail.eden.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19970708222554.006adf70@mail.vt.edu> In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970708222554.006adf70@mail.vt.edu> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Actually, I like it (especially if you're not claiming copyright). Especially the Think Again. We broke the ice, people. If we=20 can do it, it can be done again. I think that gets an=20 important point across. It's a simple 2-color design that could be used on a variety=20 of background colors. On Tue, 08 Jul 1997 22:25:54 -0700, you wrote: >I've thrown together two simple tshirt designs that get the point = across. > >Some have said "too simple". Judge for yourself. > >http://www.geocities.com/collegepark/quad/5068/des_tshirt.html > >Thanks in advance for checking them out! > >So, you thought 72 quadrillion was a big number? THINK AGAIN. > _ _ =20 > ___ ___ ___ | |_| |_ scott coleman z@vt.edu >/ __|/ __/ _ \| __| __| washington water power >\__ \ (_| (_) | |_| |_ junior, virginia tech >|___/\___\___/ \__|\__| computer engineering From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 9 08:10:11 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA00184 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:10:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA00173 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:10:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailhost.carreker.com(206.50.131.2) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma000161; Wed, 9 Jul 97 08:09:53 -0400 Received: by tcg_nt1.carreker.com from localhost (router,SLMail V2.5); Wed, 09 Jul 1997 07:19:04 -0600 Received: by tcg_nt1.carreker.com from mailhost.atl.carreker.com (206.104.97.10::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.5); Wed, 09 Jul 1997 07:19:03 -0600 Received: from 206.50.243.183 by mailhost.atl.carreker.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1457.7) id 319S5PD6; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:23:26 -0400 From: "Skip Huffman" To: "deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com" Date: Wed, 09 Jul 97 08:19:44 -0400 Reply-To: "=?iso-8859-0?q?Skip_Huffman,_Carreker_Antinori?=" X-Mailer: PMMail 1.91+ Running at WARP Speed X-Tag: ** TagIt/2 v1.4 ** for PMMail by Robert Spangler MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: more tshirt designs (2) Message-Id: <19970709071904.06140574.in@tcg_nt1.carreker.com> Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 08 Jul 1997 22:25:54 -0700, scott coleman wrote: >http://www.geocities.com/collegepark/quad/5068/des_tshirt.html Sorry, I don't like either of these. I like the Cracked Key symbol. Maybe that on the front pocket area and something about the big numbers on the back. Skip Huffman Carreker-Antinori Atlanta Office Quality Group From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 9 08:17:41 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA00280 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:17:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA00273 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:17:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailhost.carreker.com(206.50.131.2) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma000268; Wed, 9 Jul 97 08:17:13 -0400 Received: by tcg_nt1.carreker.com from localhost (router,SLMail V2.5); Wed, 09 Jul 1997 07:26:22 -0600 Received: by tcg_nt1.carreker.com from mailhost.atl.carreker.com (206.104.97.10::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.5); Wed, 09 Jul 1997 07:26:22 -0600 Received: from 206.50.243.183 by mailhost.atl.carreker.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1457.7) id 319S5P1B; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:30:44 -0400 From: "Skip Huffman" To: "deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com" Date: Wed, 09 Jul 97 08:27:06 -0400 Reply-To: "=?iso-8859-0?q?Skip_Huffman,_Carreker_Antinori?=" X-Mailer: PMMail 1.91+ Running at WARP Speed X-Tag: ** TagIt/2 v1.4 ** for PMMail by Robert Spangler MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: re: T-shirts Message-Id: <19970709072622.061ab573.in@tcg_nt1.carreker.com> Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk I prefer the upper design. With the blue background. But I would prefer that it be much smaller and located in the front pocket area of the shirt. I do agree that the back needs some work. More names, fewer numbers. Skip Huffman Carreker-Antinori Atlanta Office Quality Group From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 9 09:47:52 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA01537 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA01525 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:47:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kelso.pclink.com(204.72.134.10) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma001519; Wed, 9 Jul 97 09:47:31 -0400 Received: from ume686jmathe01.sprintspectrum.com (pm3-24 [206.11.0.124]) by pclink.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA10164 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:56:47 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970709085841.006be7a4@pclink.com> X-Sender: icepick@pclink.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 08:58:41 -0500 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: Icepick Subject: Re: More t-shirt info... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk At 03:43 AM 7/9/97 GMT, you wrote: >OK, looks like we've got at least two t-shirt producers willing >to take on the job. > >>Perhaps we should try a different kind of vote on the t-shirt >design. I've seen lots of suggestions for improvements, etc. >Obviously, we're never going to have a perfect design that >pleases everyone. Prediction: This shirt will never get made. My solution: I'm gonna run off a batch of 1, because *I* am going to get one. Period. >So, does anybody really Hate the original design? The orginal front sucks. The new suggested front is great. The orginal back sucks. Forget the domain listing. Impossible >to please everyone. If I were an artist (or hell, even had Photoshop or something) I'd whip out a design. no more no less no fear no need no height no depth too great godspeed Prove RC5 is weak! Break it! http://rc5.distributed.net/ From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 9 09:48:52 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA01562 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:48:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA01552 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:48:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kelso.pclink.com(204.72.134.10) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma001545; Wed, 9 Jul 97 09:48:31 -0400 Received: from ume686jmathe01.sprintspectrum.com (pm3-24 [206.11.0.124]) by pclink.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA10216 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:57:47 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970709085941.006bca00@pclink.com> X-Sender: icepick@pclink.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 08:59:41 -0500 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: Icepick Subject: Re: more tshirt designs (2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk At 10:25 PM 7/8/97 -0700, you wrote: >I've thrown together two simple tshirt designs that get the point across. > >Some have said "too simple". Judge for yourself. Hey. Simplicy can be beautiful. I like 'em both. If I had to chose, I'd pick door #2. One suggestion: make it "deschall '97" so we've got a date in there. no more no less no fear no need no height no depth too great godspeed Prove RC5 is weak! Break it! http://rc5.distributed.net/ From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 9 10:47:00 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA02318 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:47:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA02313 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:46:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.cis.ohio-state.edu(164.107.8.55) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma002310; Wed, 9 Jul 97 10:46:54 -0400 Received: from corsica.cis.ohio-state.edu (corsica.cis.ohio-state.edu [164.107.138.12]) by mail.cis.ohio-state.edu (8.6.7/8.6.4) with ESMTP id KAA08654 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:56:04 -0400 Received: from localhost (dolske@localhost) by corsica.cis.ohio-state.edu (8.8.0/8.6.4) with SMTP id KAA29125 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:56:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: corsica.cis.ohio-state.edu: dolske owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:56:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Justin Dolske To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Senator Lott - Crypto Angel (fwd) Message-ID: X-No-Archive: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Uh-oh. Sounds like the Senate knows about us, the NSA can't be that far behind. ;-) Justin Dolske (dolske@cis.ohio-state.edu) Graduate Fellow / Research Associate at The Ohio State University, CIS Dept. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 10:51:04 GMT From: SOFTWAR Newsgroups: talk.politics.crypto, alt.politics.org.nsa, alt.politics.org.fbi, alt.politics.org.cia, alt.politics.clinton, alt.politics.datahighway, alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater, talk.politics.misc Subject: Senator Lott - Crypto Angel You can find this statement by Sen. Trent Lott at http://thomas.loc.gov ENCRYPTION POLICY REFORM (Senate - June 27, 1997) [Page: S6724] Mr. LOTT. Mr. President, I rise today to thank the junior Senator from Montana for his leadership on the important issue. Senator Burns has led a valiant effort to address an area that I believe is in great need of reform. He has championed the cause of allowing citizens to protect their information through readily available strong information security technology. In the 104th Congress, he introduced legislation that set the stage for our reform efforts in this Congress. Again, last week, Senator Burns offered a compromise version of his original bill before the Commerce Committee, but unfortunately this measure did not pass. I hope that now we can go through a process to bring all parties together, industry and Government, to try to relieve some of the problems created by current law. We did not accomplish everything that I wanted in Committee, but I am confident that there is still time to improve this legislation. I want to congratulate Senator Burns and others on the committee like Senator Ashcroft and Senator Dorgan who have taken the time to understand the technology and to attempt to effectively guide us through these difficult issues. Mr. President, the demand for strong information security will not abate. Individuals, industry, and governments need the best information security technology to protect their information. The Administration's policy and the McCain-Kerrey bill allow export of 56-bit encryption , with key recovery requirements. How secure is 56-bit encryption ? That question was answered the day before the Senate Commerce Committee acted. Responding to a challenge, a secret message encoded with 56-bit encryption was decoded in a brute force supercomputing effort known as the `Deschall Effort.' The message that was decoded said `Strong cryptography makes the world a safer place.' Now that 56-bit encryption has been cracked by individuals working together over the Internet, information protected by that technology is vulnerable. The need to allow stronger security to protect information is more acute than ever. Mr. BURNS. Mr. President, I appreciate the comments of the majority leader. I too was opposed to the legislation approved by the committee last week, but know that we still have the opportunity to pass a meaningful bill that will allow American industry to compete with the rest of the world in the global information marketplace. I believe that we can pass a bill that will not compromise our national security or law enforcement interests. As I sat through the markup last week, it occurred to me that we had allowed the issue of encryption to be framed as the issue of child pornography or gambling. I want to be sure that all parties understand that the reform of encryption security standards is not related to these issues. I have often said that encryption is simply like putting a stamp on an envelope rather than sending a postcard because you don't want others to read your mail. Encryption is simply about people protecting their private information, about companies and governments protecting their information, from medical records to tax returns to intellectual property from unauthorized access. Hackers, espionage agents, and those just wanting to cause mischief must be restrained from access to private information over the Internet. When used correctly, encryption can enable citizens in remote locations to have access to the same information, the same technology, the same quality of health care, that citizens of our largest cities have. Perhaps most importantly, it is about ensuring that American companies have the tools they need to continue to develop and provide the leading technology in the global marketplace. Without this leadership, our national security and sovereignty will surely be threatened. 1 if by land, 2 if by sea. Paul Revere - encryption 1775 Charles R. Smith SOFTWAR http://www.us.net/softwar Pcyphered SIGNATURE: B10C94A22D617C7369E38BC43776253E3193EDC537ECDC431E5491A8A6D8E82F AD33CEE1B10C94A22D617C7369E3C8AC5604495B42C080AC4384EC742E6DA091 9FEFD81A9907FFD0 From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 9 15:37:15 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id PAA05086 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:37:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id PAA05078 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:37:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown(128.172.89.118) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma005073; Wed, 9 Jul 97 15:36:52 -0400 Received: from [207.172.61.72] (rcm-as2s09.erols.com [207.172.61.72]) by ratboy.antennahead.com (8.8.0/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA00915 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:49:32 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:43:49 -0400 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: andrew meggs Subject: Yet another T-shirt design Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk By request, I worked up art for the T-shirt design I mentioned way back in June. It's at . The theme may be a little too controversial or political or radical or hardcore for some people, but *I* like it. >Front pocket: broken key, "DESCHALL 1997". > >Back: Get some photos of various controversial figures -- Clinton, Jesse >Jackson, Newt Gingrich, Buchanan, etc., maybe even some old shots of Stalin >or J Edgar Hoover. Convert them to line art in photoshop. Slogan: "If we >can break it in our spare time, imagine what they can do to your privacy." Feedback is welcome, but no matter what design is used, let's get this thing rolling! ____________________________________________________________________________ Andrew Meggs, content provider Antennahead Industries, Inc. From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 9 16:20:15 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA05492 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:20:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA05484 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rain.kcls.org(198.104.1.64) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma005477; Wed, 9 Jul 97 16:19:57 -0400 Received: (from scottm@localhost) by rain.kcls.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA11170 for deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:29:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:29:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott McDermott To: DES Challenge List Subject: Re: Yet another T-shirt design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, andrew meggs wrote: > By request, I worked up art for the T-shirt design I mentioned way back in > June. It's at . The theme may > be a little too controversial or political or radical or hardcore for some > people, but *I* like it. I like it, too - but I couldn't wear it to work! ;) I still like the original front design the best. However, I like the way the key was represented on this back... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Scott McDermott - SysAdmin \ "Always make it reversible." King County Library System \ - A wise SysAdmin PGP key in the usual places... \ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 9 16:48:46 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA05750 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:48:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA05745 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:48:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csua1.cs.ucla.edu(131.179.96.114) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma005742; Wed, 9 Jul 97 16:48:33 -0400 Received: from localhost (ilyah@localhost) by linux0.csua.ucla.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA00912 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:57:32 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:57:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Ilya Haykinson To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: yet another t-shirt design Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Another simple design. http://www.seas.ucla.edu/~haykinso/des/tshirt.htm Remember, fancy means expensive, so we want to cut down on the number of colors that we use. If you like this design, post a message to the list. If you don't like it, don't post anything. If you like it but want to suggest a change, send me email. -Ilya Haykinson Technical Wizard UCLA Computer Science Undergraduate Association http://www.csua.ucla.edu From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 9 17:19:47 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA06001 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 17:19:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA05996 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 17:19:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gw.research.megasoft.com(206.230.35.93) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma005993; Wed, 9 Jul 97 17:19:41 -0400 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gw.research.megasoft.com (8.7.5/8.7.3-cmcurtin) id RAA26081 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 17:42:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from goffette.research.megasoft.com(192.168.1.2) by gw.research.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma026079; Wed, 9 Jul 97 17:42:10 -0400 Received: (from cmcurtin@localhost) by goffette.research.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA08558; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 17:25:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 17:23:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707092123.RAA08542@goffette.research.megasoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: C Matthew Curtin To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: T-shirts (read this if you're tired of reading about T shirts) X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid X-Face: "&>g(&eGr?u^F:nFihL%BsyS1[tCqG7}I2rGk4{aKJ5I_5A\*6RYn4"N.`1pPF9LO!Fa<(gj:12)?=uP2l01e10Gij"7j&-)torL^iBrNf\s7PDLm=rf[PjxtSbZ{J(@@j"q2/iV9^Mx; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 19:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kelly.iaonline.com(206.68.129.7) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma006820; Wed, 9 Jul 97 19:49:10 -0400 Received: from drizzt.iaonline.com (dialup30.iaonline.com [206.68.128.208]) by kelly.iaonline.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA14649; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 18:59:11 -0500 Message-Id: <199707092359.SAA14649@kelly.iaonline.com> From: "Michael R. McClelland" To: , "andrew meggs" Subject: My Vote: Meggs Was: Yet another T-shirt design Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 18:53:54 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk I like the pocket and the attitude on the back. Drop Reno and add Saddam (Insane) Husein or Ollie (I was only following orders) North. Just suggestions. We should stick all these fine designs on One Web page, send out a FINAL NOTICE, VOTE. Send the top design(s) to the Shirt Factory and let them handle what they do best. One last message to everyone(re: where to buy), and Deschall (list) is (glorious) HISTORY! I'll supply Web space but let me know one day ahead of time. I only check my mail once a day. Evenings. Let's do it. ---------- > From: andrew meggs > To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com > Subject: Yet another T-shirt design > Date: Wednesday, July 09, 1997 2:43 PM > > By request, I worked up art for the T-shirt design I mentioned way back in > June. It's at . The theme may > be a little too controversial or political or radical or hardcore for some > people, but *I* like it. > > >Front pocket: broken key, "DESCHALL 1997". > > > >Back: Get some photos of various controversial figures -- Clinton, Jesse > >Jackson, Newt Gingrich, Buchanan, etc., maybe even some old shots of Stalin > >or J Edgar Hoover. Convert them to line art in photoshop. Slogan: "If we > >can break it in our spare time, imagine what they can do to your privacy." > > Feedback is welcome, but no matter what design is used, let's get this > thing rolling! > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > Andrew Meggs, content provider Antennahead Industries, Inc. > > From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 9 21:24:22 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id VAA07189 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:24:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id VAA07181 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:24:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kelly.iaonline.com(206.68.129.7) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma007177; Wed, 9 Jul 97 21:24:11 -0400 Received: from drizzt.iaonline.com (dialup30.iaonline.com [206.68.128.208]) by kelly.iaonline.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA16533 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 20:34:13 -0500 Message-Id: <199707100134.UAA16533@kelly.iaonline.com> From: "Michael R. McClelland" To: Subject: tired of reading about T shirts) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 20:28:56 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk > > It's my hope that by keeping the list in operation, we'll be able to > talk about some things related to deschall, both in distributed > computing, and in cryptography. > .............where everyone > posted their suggestions. ***VOTE***VOTE***VOTE***VOTE*** > http://www.research.megasoft.com/deschall/t-shirt.html > > -- > Matt Curtin Chief Scientist Megasoft Online cmcurtin@research.megasoft.com > http://www.research.megasoft.com/people/cmcurtin/ I speak only for myself > Pull AGIS.NET's plug! DES has fallen! http://www.frii.com/~rcv/deschall.htm I know you are very busy but as the owner/moderator of this list you are really the only one with authority so what I'm trying to say is, it's your Bull. This T-shirt thread is all there is... uhh, oh wait a minute. I hate it when I keep perpetuating threads I'd like to see gone. NEW SUBJECT Practical Crypto Question I recently started using PGP 5.0 (my first experience with such things) and I've had some trouble finding public keys for certain people who sign their email. The program help files say to search by email address or user name, which I've tried to no avail. Is there some other way people list their keys? Do some people not list their public keys? Is there a keyserver other than PGP's which is more widely used? PGP mentions other keyservers but doesn't name any: suggestions? It seems that a "Public" public keyserver would make more sense. What happens if I wanted to send someone an encrypted message with their public key but they are using some "Brand X" encryption? Do I have to get more software? As I stated, I'm new at this but not too shy to ask. Please answer these dumb questions and if you do a really good job of it, I'll reward you with a list of stupid questions to clarify your dumb answers. :) Thanks, and please give me some suggestions for links on my lame distributed computing page: http://www.iaonline.com/users/drizzt/distrib.html Sincerely, mike-mcclelland@usa.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/1124/ The Lightning in a BrainStorm is caused by Eclectricityİ From owner-deschall-announce Thu Jul 10 01:14:58 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id BAA08017 for deschall-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 01:14:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id BAA08012 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 01:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.eskimo.com(204.122.16.48) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma008006; Thu, 10 Jul 97 01:14:27 -0400 Received: from eskimo.com (klevin@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA22174 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:23:41 -0700 Received: from localhost by eskimo.com (8.8.6) id WAA29161; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:23:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:23:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Noah Romer To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Yet another T-shirt design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, andrew meggs wrote: > By request, I worked up art for the T-shirt design I mentioned way back in > June. It's at . The theme may > be a little too controversial or political or radical or hardcore for some > people, but *I* like it. > > >Front pocket: broken key, "DESCHALL 1997". I absolutely love the front. The way you did the encrypted/decrypted message is the best I've seen yet. However, I most likely wouldn't buy a shirt w/ the political content of the back (just doesn't work w/ my political neutrality). If you don't mind, I'd like to snag the pocket graphic for a background on my computer. -- Noah Romer |"Calm down, it's only ones and zeros." - this message klevin@eskimo.com |brought to you by The Network PGP key available |"Time will have its say, it always does." - Celltrex by finger or email |from Flying to Valhalla by Charles Pellegrino From owner-deschall-announce Thu Jul 10 01:12:28 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id BAA08004 for deschall-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 01:12:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id BAA07997 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 01:12:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lioness.95net.com(207.113.129.10) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma007992; Thu, 10 Jul 97 01:12:09 -0400 Received: from [207.113.130.235] (ppp011.95net.com [207.113.130.235]) by lioness.95net.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA23776 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:16:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199707100516.WAA23776@lioness.95net.com> Subject: My shirt thoughts Date: Wed, 9 Jul 97 22:22:27 -0700 x-sender: barryn@mail.95net.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v2, June 6, 1997 From: Barry Nathan To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk I like Andrew Meggs' design the best, so far. Of course, it's a bit... shall we say, controversial, but it's something I'd wear to school. I do have some suggestions, though (that might make it even more controversial :) : Replace Reno with Al Gore. Replace Gingrich with Louis Freeh. And, of course, change the nicknames as necessary. How about Louis "Violator" Freeh (hopefully that one's obvious) and Al "CAPS" Gore? In case you don't know, CAPS is short for "computer-aided passenger screening". Here's a web page with more info: . Yeah, I guess this is getting a little off topic, but so was "Flaming Davidian" Reno. -Barry Nathan - Email: PGP public key: finger Web page: I helped smash DES into bits CRACK RC5 NOW! Web page update coming by Sept. 1st From owner-deschall-announce Thu Jul 10 08:36:49 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA09840 for deschall-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:36:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA09832 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:36:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailhost.carreker.com(206.50.131.2) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma009828; Thu, 10 Jul 97 08:36:23 -0400 Received: by tcg_nt1.carreker.com from localhost (router,SLMail V2.5); Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:45:34 -0600 Received: by tcg_nt1.carreker.com from mailhost.atl.carreker.com (206.104.97.10::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.5); Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:45:33 -0600 Received: from 206.50.243.183 by mailhost.atl.carreker.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1457.7) id 319S5PY4; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:50:00 -0400 From: "Skip Huffman" To: "deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com" , "Michael R. McClelland" Date: Thu, 10 Jul 97 08:45:54 -0400 Reply-To: "=?iso-8859-0?q?Skip_Huffman,_Carreker_Antinori?=" X-Mailer: PMMail 1.91+ Running at WARP Speed X-Tag: ** TagIt/2 v1.4 ** for PMMail by Robert Spangler MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: PGP Public Key questions. Was: Re: tired of reading about T shirts) Message-Id: <19970710074534.0b52a4b7.in@tcg_nt1.carreker.com> Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The best place that I have found to get public keys is from the key holder him or her self. That way you know that it is their key. Effectively the highest level of trust. Most people I know that sign their messages have an automatic process to send their key. A filter on their incoming email will reply to messages with certain Subject: lines by sending the key. For an example see my SIG. Go ahead and use it and you will get my public key so that you can check the signature on this message. If they do not have a process to distribute their key, you can usually send an email asking for it. Most people will be happy to respond to such requests. On your other question, as far as I know encryption systems are exclusive, you have to be using the same one as your correspondent. So far this has not been a problem for me as everyone I know that uses encryption uses PGP. It is the de facto standard. Good luck, Skip Huffman For PGP public key send email with subject: Please Send PGP Public Key -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBM8Tni+a5sUaE+RvJAQGOFQP/cbncUo8/yrjNnVdMWyj/ED41n3d39/yT MuiOXmrS5OmNEm77jUSQ54MAAN+wLsX/qvkdVbaiSA+sB5fJOxlnb9A1o6RsiOma aNV2zNKI5/fftMS+4lXmU6R5S7QjjSA7+AKGdy5YKxGC0iIHcSX3nhIDj8slKfSG 9lFGvY7WVSQ= =0sNW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-deschall-announce Thu Jul 10 11:13:37 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA11190 for deschall-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:13:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA11183 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:13:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from friley72-temp.res.iastate.edu(129.186.78.72) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma011179; Thu, 10 Jul 97 11:13:32 -0400 Received: from localhost (vorlon@localhost) by cozad.dodds.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA01910; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:22:34 -0500 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:22:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Langasek To: "Michael R. McClelland" cc: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: tired of reading about T shirts) In-Reply-To: <199707100134.UAA16533@kelly.iaonline.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, Michael R. McClelland wrote: > Thanks, and please give me some suggestions for links on my lame > distributed computing page: > http://www.iaonline.com/users/drizzt/distrib.html We-ell, I notice you have a link to Parallel Virtual Machine, so this link may also be of interest... http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/linkux/beowulf/ is a cute little project developed by the same Donald Becker who has written a sizeable chunk of the Linux PC ethernet drivers. :) This little toy lets you build your own parallel-processing supercomputer out of ordinary PCs... And if I ever find the time, and can scrounge up enough of the right ethernet cards, I'll get around to playing with this, but that probably won't be for a while yet. :) -Steve Langasek -doink- From owner-deschall-announce Thu Jul 10 11:59:08 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA11631 for deschall-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA11626 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:59:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from r02a02.cac.psu.edu(146.186.15.12) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma011623; Thu, 10 Jul 97 11:58:40 -0400 Received: from runabout (runabout.fe.psu.edu [146.186.63.121]) by r02n02.cac.psu.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA24144 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:07:54 -0400 Message-ID: <33C509D3.317B@psu.edu> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:12:03 -0400 From: Stephen Shimatzki Reply-To: sjs132@psu.edu Organization: Penn State Fayette Campus Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: tired of reading about T shirts) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Stephen Langasek wrote: > > On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, Michael R. McClelland wrote: > > > Thanks, and please give me some suggestions for links on my lame > > distributed computing page: > > http://www.iaonline.com/users/drizzt/distrib.html > > We-ell, I notice you have a link to Parallel Virtual Machine, so this link > may also be of interest... http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/linkux/beowulf/ is > a cute little project developed by the same Donald Becker who has written > a sizeable chunk of the Linux PC ethernet drivers. :) This little toy > lets you build your own parallel-processing supercomputer out of ordinary > PCs... And if I ever find the time, and can scrounge up enough of the > right ethernet cards, I'll get around to playing with this, but that > probably won't be for a while yet. :) > > -Steve Langasek > -doink- Steve, Tried going there today... didnt work.. :( Bad URL? -Steve -- ---- Stephen Shimatzki sjs132@psu.edu Computer Center Assistant Manager PennState Fayette Campus http://www.fe.psu.edu From owner-deschall-announce Thu Jul 10 12:10:39 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id MAA11717 for deschall-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:10:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id MAA11705 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:10:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from r02a02.cac.psu.edu(146.186.15.12) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma011700; Thu, 10 Jul 97 12:10:17 -0400 Received: from runabout (runabout.fe.psu.edu [146.186.63.121]) by r02n02.cac.psu.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA32542 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:18:59 -0400 Message-ID: <33C50C17.9FB@psu.edu> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:21:43 -0400 From: Stephen Shimatzki Reply-To: sjs132@psu.edu Organization: Penn State Fayette Campus Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: tired of reading about T shirts) References: <33C509D3.317B@psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Stephen Shimatzki wrote: > > Stephen Langasek wrote: > > > > On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, Michael R. McClelland wrote: > > > > > Thanks, and please give me some suggestions for links on my lame > > > distributed computing page: > > > http://www.iaonline.com/users/drizzt/distrib.html > > > > We-ell, I notice you have a link to Parallel Virtual Machine, so this link > > may also be of interest... http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/linkux/beowulf/ is > > a cute little project developed by the same Donald Becker who has written > > a sizeable chunk of the Linux PC ethernet drivers. :) This little toy > > lets you build your own parallel-processing supercomputer out of ordinary > > PCs... And if I ever find the time, and can scrounge up enough of the > > right ethernet cards, I'll get around to playing with this, but that > > probably won't be for a while yet. :) > > > > -Steve Langasek > > -doink- Looked around a bit, Here is the correct URL... :) http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/linux/beowulf/beowulf.html Enjoy.. -Steve > -- -- ---- Stephen Shimatzki sjs132@psu.edu Computer Center Assistant Manager PennState Fayette Campus http://www.fe.psu.edu From owner-deschall-announce Thu Jul 10 12:19:39 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id MAA11849 for deschall-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:19:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id MAA11842 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:19:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from friley72-temp.res.iastate.edu(129.186.78.72) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma011838; Thu, 10 Jul 97 12:19:26 -0400 Received: from localhost (vorlon@localhost) by cozad.dodds.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA02494 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:28:41 -0500 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:28:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Langasek To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: tired of reading about T shirts) In-Reply-To: <33C509D3.317B@psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Stephen Shimatzki wrote: > > We-ell, I notice you have a link to Parallel Virtual Machine, so this link > > may also be of interest... http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/linkux/beowulf/ > Tried going there today... didnt work.. :( Bad URL? Err, yes... that should be http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/linux/beowulf/ , scratch the k. Shame on me for not using cut'n'paste... -Steve Langasek -doink- From owner-deschall-announce Thu Jul 10 12:51:39 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id MAA12239 for deschall-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:51:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id MAA12232 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:51:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hate.sizone.org(209.50.72.17) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma012228; Thu, 10 Jul 97 12:51:15 -0400 Received: by sizone.org (Linux Smail3.1.93 #5) id m0wmMYV-000H6YC; Thu, 10 Jul 97 12:58:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: From: mathboy@sizone.org (Rheumatobates Hirticulidiablo) Subject: beowulf To: sjs132@psu.edu Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:58:58 -0400 (EDT) Cc: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com In-Reply-To: <33C509D3.317B@psu.edu> from "Stephen Shimatzki" at Jul 10, 97 12:12:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk then Stephen Shimatzki's all.. > > Stephen Langasek wrote: > > > > On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, Michael R. McClelland wrote: > > > > > Thanks, and please give me some suggestions for links on my lame > > > distributed computing page: > > > http://www.iaonline.com/users/drizzt/distrib.html > > > > We-ell, I notice you have a link to Parallel Virtual Machine, so this link > > may also be of interest... http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/linkux/beowulf/ is > > a cute little project developed by the same Donald Becker who has written > Tried going there today... didnt work.. :( Bad URL? INVESTIGATE!!! I found this: http://cesdis1.gsfc.nasa.gov/~becker/beowulf.html there are links to this right off the Linux documentation project (http://www.linux.org) /kc -- Ken Chase mathboy@sizone.org Sonic Interzone $free$ email/news Toronto Canada ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Join the DES Challenge! Wake up the US Govt! www.frii.com/~rcv/deschall.htm NB:Only 16000 P200-months CPU req'd to recover 56-bit IBM alliance keys! ** U.S. EXPORT LAWS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOUR COUNTRY: DEVELOP YOUR NATIONS' OWN CRYPTO-EXPORT INDUSTRY! USE 2048bit KEYS FREELY! FLAUNT YOUR SOVEREIGNTY! ** From owner-deschall-announce Thu Jul 10 14:35:11 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA12887 for deschall-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:35:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA12879 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:35:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu(128.113.100.7) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma012874; Thu, 10 Jul 97 14:35:02 -0400 Received: from eclipse.its.rpi.edu (gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu [128.113.24.33]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA193360 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:44:18 -0400 Received: by eclipse.its.rpi.edu (NX5.67e/NX3.0M) id AA28545; Thu, 10 Jul 97 14:44:13 -0400 Message-Id: <9707101844.AA28545@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Garance A Drosehn Date: Thu, 10 Jul 97 14:44:11 -0400 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: T-Shirts References: <3.0.1.32.19970708173732.00715cd8@pclink.com> Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Icepick wrote: > At 05:47 PM 7/8/97 -0400, someone wrote: > > Are there any objections to a comma separated list of all the > > domains that will fit on the back, starting with the largest > > crackers and going from there? Left to right, and listing as > > many as we can? > > Yes. > > I have numerious objections to the domain list: One would think that we might be able to support multiple T-shirt designs. I like the one with a domain-name list on the back, but I don't imagine that every single person in the deschall effort is going to find that the most desirable design. This group got together simply because the goal of breaking a DES-encrypted message was worthwhile (and we even have different reasons for *why* we thought it was worthwhile). This group did not get together because we have the exact same preferences for clothing. No matter what single pattern people try to suggest, there will be other people who object to it (and they will have perfectly good reasons). So, I think we should expect that we might be better off with two or three different designs. There are several details which could vary, in an attempt to make sure that everyone who wants a T-shirt has *some* design that fits their tastes. But I don't think we can pick a single T-shirt design which everyone can get excited about. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer (MIME & NeXTmail capable) Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA From owner-deschall-announce Sun Jul 13 00:06:39 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA26381 for deschall-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 00:06:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA26376 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 00:06:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worf.netins.net(167.142.225.4) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma026374; Sun, 13 Jul 97 00:06:23 -0400 Received: from desm-13-40.dialup.netins.net (desm-13-40.dialup.netins.net [167.142.16.105]) by worf.netins.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA01936 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 23:15:37 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 23:15:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707130415.XAA01936@worf.netins.net> X-Authentication-Warning: worf.netins.net: desm-13-40.dialup.netins.net [167.142.16.105] didn't use HELO protocol X-Sender: crward@netins.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: Charles R Ward Subject: Re: My Vote: Meggs Was: Yet another T-shirt design Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Of all the proposed shirts I've seen, I like Andrew's best. As for choosing one, why not everyone with a design and ability to produce, submit it to Rocke for approval, then produce it. There are enough of us to support several shirts. If any one produces Andrew's I'll take one of each. Charles At 06:53 PM 7/9/97 -0500, you wrote: >I like the pocket and the attitude on the back. Drop Reno and add Saddam >(Insane) Husein or Ollie (I was only following orders) North. Just >suggestions. > We should stick all these fine designs on One Web page, send out a FINAL >NOTICE, VOTE. Send the top design(s) to the Shirt Factory and let them >handle what they do best. One last message to everyone(re: where to buy), >and Deschall (list) is (glorious) HISTORY! > I'll supply Web space but let me know one day ahead of time. I only check >my mail once a day. Evenings. > Let's do it. > >---------- >> From: andrew meggs >> To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com >> Subject: Yet another T-shirt design >> Date: Wednesday, July 09, 1997 2:43 PM >> >> By request, I worked up art for the T-shirt design I mentioned way back >in >> June. It's at . The theme may >> be a little too controversial or political or radical or hardcore for >some >> people, but *I* like it. >> >> >Front pocket: broken key, "DESCHALL 1997". >> > >> >Back: Get some photos of various controversial figures -- Clinton, Jesse >> >Jackson, Newt Gingrich, Buchanan, etc., maybe even some old shots of >Stalin >> >or J Edgar Hoover. Convert them to line art in photoshop. Slogan: "If we >> >can break it in our spare time, imagine what they can do to your >privacy." >> >> Feedback is welcome, but no matter what design is used, let's get this >> thing rolling! >> >> >> >____________________________________________________________________________ > >> Andrew Meggs, content provider Antennahead Industries, >Inc. >> > >> > > From owner-deschall-announce Sun Jul 13 00:33:39 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA26437 for deschall-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 00:33:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA26432 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 00:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.eskimo.com(204.122.16.48) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma026430; Sun, 13 Jul 97 00:33:24 -0400 Received: from eskimo.com (klevin@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA03155 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:42:40 -0700 Received: from localhost by eskimo.com (8.8.6) id VAA23971; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:42:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:42:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Noah Romer cc: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: PGP public keys Was: tired of reading about T shirts) In-Reply-To: <199707100134.UAA16533@kelly.iaonline.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, Michael R. McClelland wrote: [snip] > name, which I've tried to no avail. Is there some other way people list > their keys? Do some people not list their public keys? Is there a keyserver > other than PGP's which is more widely used? PGP mentions other keyservers > but doesn't name any: suggestions? It seems that a "Public" public Since no one else has mentioned it, at least on the list, I will. You can often get the persons public key by fingering them. ie. type "finger klevin@eskimo.com", and my pgp public key (amoung other things) will be sent back to you. This assumes that you're at a command prompt on a system that has finger installed; most unix systems do (especially those of your ISP/university), if you're on your own system at home you'll need to get a copy for the appropriate OS (most "PC" OS's have both command line and gui versions in existence). One other related thing, some systems (such as eskimo.com) deny finger services to any machine not running identd, if you plan on using finger, you'll want to make sure identd is on the system you use. One other post mentioned a couple of other way's that public keys can be gotten, as is usual w/ the Internet, there's almost always more than one way to do things. -- Noah Romer |"Calm down, it's only ones and zeros." - this message klevin@eskimo.com |brought to you by The Network PGP key available |"Time will have its say, it always does." - Celltrex by finger or email |from Flying to Valhalla by Charles Pellegrino From owner-deschall-announce Sun Jul 13 14:25:56 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA27838 for deschall-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:25:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA27833 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:25:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.bcpl.lib.md.us(204.255.212.10) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma027831; Sun, 13 Jul 97 14:25:44 -0400 Received: from localhost by mail.bcpl.lib.md.us (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA11547; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:34:55 -0400 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:34:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Lee Sheridan To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: PGP public keys Was: tired of reading about T shirts) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Sat, 12 Jul 1997, Noah Romer wrote: > often get the persons public key by fingering them. ie. type "finger > klevin@eskimo.com", and my pgp public key (amoung other things) will be > sent back to you. This assumes that you're at a command prompt on a system > that has finger installed; most unix systems do (especially those of your > ISP/university), if you're on your own system at home you'll need to get a > copy for the appropriate OS (most "PC" OS's have both command line and gui If you didn't have a finger client installed, you could always telnet to port 79 of the target machine. See RFC 742. -Lee http://www.bcpl.lib.md.us/~lsherida/ lsherida@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us lee.sheridan@f563.n109.z1.fidonet.org PGP Public key available via finger. From owner-deschall-announce Sun Jul 13 16:34:59 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA28038 for deschall-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:34:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA28033 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:34:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lucifer.testlab.orst.edu(128.193.78.11) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma028031; Sun, 13 Jul 97 16:34:43 -0400 Received: by lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id <346Q8JDK>; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 13:50:13 -0700 Message-ID: <71846B925036CF11BD6D00C0D1570929160722@lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU> From: Adam Haberlach To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com, "'rc5@llamas.net'" Subject: Formal T-shirt vote -- last call for submissions / the one-week c ountdown begins. Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 13:50:11 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk I have set up the last T-shirt vote I will run for the DES Challenge victory shirts. We have five submissions, running from political to cute, and we have a choice of color. I even left a place for people to leave suggestions. The vote will run for one week, from today, July 13th until next Sunday, July 20th. If you miss your chance to vote, don't come crying to me. I have included a space for quantity, for people ordering large blocks of shirts. If you are ordering for a university, please make sure you are the only one ordering for a university--we don't want six people from UIUC to order 20 T-shirts each, when they really only want 20 shirts total. Orders will start July 20th, in the interest of proving that it still takes longer to crack 56-bit encryption systems then it does to design, choose, and distribute T-shirts. It looks like shirts will cost around $13 shipped, but this may depend heavily on final design choices and quantity. I am assuming that ordering large blocks of shirts will lower shipping prices. If you wish to vote, the URL is: http://www.engr.orst.edu/~haberlad/desch/tshirt.html Votes are final. If you wish to submit a T-shirt, please post it someplace and notify me, or E-mail it to me. I will add it to the voting page, but I will not re-start the vote. If you wish to flame me, send it to abuse@earthlink.net, as they will ignore you better then I will. --- Adam Haberlach http://www.testlab.orst.edu/~haberlaa Free Lottery Tickets! Odds: 1/72,000,000,000,000 http://rc5.distributed.net From owner-deschall-announce Sun Jul 13 18:57:01 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA28355 for deschall-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:57:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA28350 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown(128.172.89.118) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma028348; Sun, 13 Jul 97 18:56:59 -0400 Received: from [207.172.62.226] (rcm-as8s35.erols.com [207.172.62.226]) by ratboy.antennahead.com (8.8.0/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA09958; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:11:01 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <71846B925036CF11BD6D00C0D1570929160722@lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:05:00 -0400 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com, "'rc5@llamas.net'" From: andrew meggs Subject: Re: Formal T-shirt vote Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk At 1:50 PM -0700 7/13/97, Adam Haberlach wrote: > I have set up the last T-shirt vote I will run for the DES >Challenge victory shirts. We have five submissions, running from >political to cute, and we have a choice of color. Actually, there are 6 submissions, but only 5 that are listed on the voting page. I worked up a shirt that had most of the graphic elements of my political one (front pocket, encrypted<-->decrypted text block), but with a non-political slogan in place of Bill Clinton, etc. I suspect people might like to be able to vote for it. It's at along with my original design. If you like it, you get to wait until Adam gets his act together to vote for it. Also, the shirts I designed are the shirts *I* designed, and contrary to what the voting page suggests they are not in any way affiliated with Antennahead Industries, with the exception that I have personal web space there. Please fix both of these things. > If you wish to submit a T-shirt, please post it someplace and >notify me, or E-mail it to me. I will add it to the voting page, but I >will not re-start the vote. Considering that the second design was circulating for 48 hours BEFORE you started the vote, that's a poor attitude. ____________________________________________________________________________ Andrew Meggs, content provider Antennahead Industries, Inc. From owner-deschall-announce Sun Jul 13 19:20:15 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA28423 for deschall-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:20:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA28418 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:20:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lucifer.testlab.orst.edu(128.193.78.11) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma028413; Sun, 13 Jul 97 19:19:40 -0400 Received: by lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id <346Q8JD5>; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:35:11 -0700 Message-ID: <71846B925036CF11BD6D00C0D1570929160725@lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU> From: Adam Haberlach To: "'andrew meggs'" , deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com, "'rc5@llamas.net'" Subject: RE: Formal T-shirt vote Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:35:07 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk > -----Original Message----- > From: andrew meggs [SMTP:insect@antennahead.com] > Sent: Sunday, July 13, 1997 4:05 PM > To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com; 'rc5@llamas.net' > Subject: Re: Formal T-shirt vote > > >I suspect people might like to be able to vote for it. It's at > > along with my original > design. > >If you like it, you get to wait until Adam gets his act together to > vote > >for it. > > The act has been gotten together, as far as I can tell. It should be > set up. > > >Also, the shirts I designed are the shirts *I* designed, and contrary > to > >what the voting page suggests they are not in any way affiliated with > >Antennahead Industries, with the exception that I have personal web > space > >there. > > And this has been fixed as well (except for a few filenames, which I > don't want to play with until the traffic slows down). > > >> If you wish to submit a T-shirt, please post it someplace and > >>notify me, or E-mail it to me. I will add it to the voting page, > but I > >>will not re-start the vote. > > >Considering that the second design was circulating for 48 hours > BEFORE you > >started the vote, that's a poor attitude. > > You're exactly right. > > --- > Adam Haberlach > http://www.testlab.orst.edu/~haberlaa > Free Lottery Tickets! Odds: 1/72,000,000,000,000 > http://rc5.distributed.net > From owner-deschall-announce Sun Jul 13 19:51:32 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA28507 for deschall-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:51:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA28502 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:51:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cmu1.acs.cmu.edu(128.2.35.186) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma028500; Sun, 13 Jul 97 19:51:16 -0400 Received: from [128.2.120.11] (CREAMOFWHEAT-11.SLIP.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.120.11]) by cmu1.acs.cmu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA12166 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:00:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: dtw@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <71846B925036CF11BD6D00C0D1570929160725@lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:59:40 -0400 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: Duane T Williams Subject: RE: Formal T-shirt vote Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk > >Considering that the second design was circulating for 48 hours > BEFORE you > >started the vote, that's a poor attitude. > > You're exactly right. > > --- > Adam Haberlach Well, there is nothing that makes Adam's vote official. We can just ignore it. From owner-deschall-announce Sun Jul 13 21:13:34 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id VAA28699 for deschall-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:13:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id VAA28694 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:13:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kelly.iaonline.com(206.68.129.7) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma028692; Sun, 13 Jul 97 21:13:07 -0400 Received: from drizzt.iaonline.com (dialup52.iaonline.com [206.68.128.230]) by kelly.iaonline.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA07917 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:24:13 -0500 Message-Id: <199707140124.UAA07917@kelly.iaonline.com> From: "Michael R. McClelland" To: Subject: Re: Formal T-shirt vote Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:17:43 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk ---------- > From: Duane T Williams > To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com > Subject: RE: Formal T-shirt vote > Date: Sunday, July 13, 1997 6:59 PM > > > >Considering that the second design was circulating for 48 hours > > BEFORE you > > >started the vote, that's a poor attitude. > > > > You're exactly right. > > > > --- > > Adam Haberlach > > Well, there is nothing that makes Adam's vote official. We can just ignore it. > The following is a quote from Duane(7/8/97): "I think that Matt Curtin had the right idea. Whoever is willing to undertake overseeing the production of the shirt should step forward right away. We should select one such person and then we should have a one week period for people to submit graphic (not verbal) designs. Then we should vote and the winning design can be offered for sale." Duane ??? I'm sorry but isn't Adam doing exactly as you suggested? Vote and be happy! (-:><:-) mike-mcclelland@usa.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/1124/ The Lightning in a BrainStorm is caused by Eclectricityİ From owner-deschall-announce Sun Jul 13 22:45:36 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA28944 for deschall-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:45:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA28939 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:45:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cmu1.acs.cmu.edu(128.2.35.186) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma028937; Sun, 13 Jul 97 22:45:31 -0400 Received: from [128.2.120.11] (CREAMOFWHEAT-11.SLIP.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.120.11]) by cmu1.acs.cmu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14413 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:54:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: dtw@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199707140124.UAA07917@kelly.iaonline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:54:26 -0400 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: Duane T Williams Subject: Re: Formal T-shirt vote Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk >??? I'm sorry but isn't Adam doing exactly as you suggested? Vote and be >happy! (-:><:-) I thought the idea was to come up with a t-shirt design that people would be happy with and would be willing to buy and wear. Now some people are saying "Let's just choose *something* and get this over with." I'm sorry, but I don't think that is what I suggested. And I think that if that is what's done there will be a lot of people deciding they can do without a t-shirt. What's the point of just getting it over with if most people are left unhappy? I didn't see any reason for Adam to respond to Andrew in a flippant manner and I don't think it would have hurt anything to shift the deadline a couple of days. From owner-deschall-announce Sun Jul 13 23:38:37 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA29049 for deschall-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:38:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA29044 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:38:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esinet1.esinet.net(208.197.151.2) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma029042; Sun, 13 Jul 97 23:38:29 -0400 Received: from onsite1 (dialin3.max4048.esinet.net [208.197.151.130]) by esinet1.esinet.net (8.8.6/ESI-8.8.X-A) with ESMTP id XAA04947 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:47:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707140347.XAA04947@esinet1.esinet.net> From: "Arvin Meyer" To: "DES" Subject: Re: Formal T-shirt vote Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:47:43 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1160 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk I think it's good that Adam has taken the initiative to get this thing going. It's about time we quit playing with "I'd like this" or "yes, but let's change this" and start putting together a concrete plan to get it done. Adam is the first, and thusfar only one to say let's JUST DO IT ! To me that makes sense. Perhaps he was a bit abrasive, but he, like many of us, is getting impatient with all the indecisiveness. If any of you have ideas, e-mail him, and he'll add them to his page. There is no reason why this has to drag out forever. Also, if there is a lot of interest in more than one shirt, more than one will be made. Believe me, if 5,000 want one shirt, and 4,000 want another, both will be made. There is no reason not to. The screen costs are about $70 or $80 dollars, depending on the number of colors. So that if enough people want any style, the cost is absorbed. Plus, even if only a few hundred wanted a particular style, if they were willing to divide the extra cost, they could have what they wanted. Do we want T-Shirts or not? If we do, let's stop this bickering, and get on with it. Arvin Meyer onsite@esinet.net ---------- > From: Duane T Williams > To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com > Subject: Re: Formal T-shirt vote > Date: Sunday, July 13, 1997 10:54 PM > > >??? I'm sorry but isn't Adam doing exactly as you suggested? Vote and be > >happy! (-:><:-) > > I thought the idea was to come up with a t-shirt design that people would > be happy with and would be willing to buy and wear. > > Now some people are saying "Let's just choose *something* and get this over > with." I'm sorry, but I don't think that is what I suggested. And I think > that if that is what's done there will be a lot of people deciding they can > do without a t-shirt. What's the point of just getting it over with if > most people are left unhappy? I didn't see any reason for Adam to respond > to Andrew in a flippant manner and I don't think it would have hurt > anything to shift the deadline a couple of days. > From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 15 02:11:00 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id CAA09185 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 02:11:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id CAA09180 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 02:10:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lucifer.testlab.orst.edu(128.193.78.11) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma009178; Tue, 15 Jul 97 02:10:53 -0400 Received: by lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id <346Q8J2T>; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:26:28 -0700 Message-ID: <71846B925036CF11BD6D00C0D1570929160728@lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU> From: Adam Haberlach To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: RE: Formal T-shirt vote Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:26:26 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- - -----Original Message----- From: Duane T Williams [SMTP:duane@cmu.edu] Sent: Sunday, July 13, 1997 7:54 PM To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Formal T-shirt vote >>??? I'm sorry but isn't Adam doing exactly as you suggested? >Vote and be >>happy! (-:><:-) >I thought the idea was to come up with a t-shirt design that >people would >be happy with and would be willing to buy and wear. My goal is to come up with a t-shirt design that will sell and produce it before everyone forgets what we did. As of now, we have 116 votes. I have not checked for total quantity or calculated which shirt is in the lead. >Now some people are saying "Let's just choose *something* and >get this over >with." I'm sorry, but I don't think that is what I suggested. >And I think >that if that is what's done there will be a lot of people >deciding they can >do without a t-shirt. What's the point of just getting it over >with if >most people are left unhappy? I didn't see any reason for Adam >to respond >to Andrew in a flippant manner and I don't think it would have >hurt >anything to shift the deadline a couple of days. o. I believe that we should hurry up and choose *something*. I believe this very much. Face it--not everyone is going to be happy. If you really want to be happy, spend $85 for a single-run, custom shirt. On the other hand, we can try to find interest in 200 shirts of a single design. That makes those 200 people happy. The rest can decide to go without a shirt. o. My flippiancy is my business, and is (for you) much preferable to my flaming. I did not like Andrew's tone, and I responded in kind. End of matter. As I have said, I am spending my own time on this. Go ahead and do your own thing if you wish. Go ahead and ignore me if you wish. But don't complain about the way I do a job that nobody else was willing to do. I gave many people many chances to organize this in any way the wished, and nobody did. Now it is my turn. o. Deadlines are deadlines. His design was posted to the page three hours after the rest of them. The vote will be run for more then 150 hours. I feel that it is not worth changing the deadline. - --- Adam Haberlach http://www.testlab.orst.edu/~haberlaa Free Lottery Tickets! Odds: 1/72,000,000,000,000 http://rc5.distributed.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBM8q0cRSmwqZasiJdAQGM6AP/WQvirwnSPBTUvQObss2cerwnwQUOD8Rx 6fDx1l7R4FfsALRxRh+5Oa0Ir4wwwLn8vrV1anUsAt8SEhmv4BcO5UQuoHAlow7U uIFHNkCjMh5vfdjUh4Hj/DpoimZCrtf/U9WAO4fn8H6OhxeQN/+ysxXbACRuZPXT 5q035SVix5I= =G93L -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-deschall-announce Fri Jul 18 01:57:47 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id BAA02598 for deschall-outgoing; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:57:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id BAA02593 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:57:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gw.research.megasoft.com(206.230.35.93) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma002591; Fri, 18 Jul 97 01:57:25 -0400 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gw.research.megasoft.com (8.7.5/8.7.3-cmcurtin) id CAA10386 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 02:21:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from goffette.research.megasoft.com(192.168.1.2) by gw.research.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma010384; Fri, 18 Jul 97 02:21:20 -0400 Received: (from cmcurtin@localhost) by goffette.research.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA01353; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 02:03:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 02:03:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707180603.CAA01353@goffette.research.megasoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: C Matthew Curtin To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: T-shirt printers X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid X-Face: "&>g(&eGr?u^F:nFihL%BsyS1[tCqG7}I2rGk4{aKJ5I_5A\*6RYn4"N.`1pPF9LO!Fa<(gj:12)?=uP2l01e10Gij"7j&-)torL^iBrNf\s7PDLm=rf[PjxtSbZ{J(@@j"q2/iV9^Mx; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:04:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from eliot213.wuh.wustl.edu(128.252.105.213) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma006533; Fri, 18 Jul 97 14:04:15 -0400 Received: from eliot213.wuh.wustl.edu (ejeffrey@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eliot213.wuh.wustl.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA22124 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:13:31 -0500 Message-Id: <199707181813.NAA22124@eliot213.wuh.wustl.edu> Reply-To: erjeffre@artsci.wustl.edu To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: interesting... Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:13:31 -0500 From: Evan Jeffrey Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk hmm... this is sort of unrelated to deschall/tshirts/encryption, but I found it interesting. I was looking at the case for a DAT tape today (bored...) and down at the bottom it says: This item is classified as "a strategic commodity / product" in accordance with the COCOM Agreements. Export of this item may require an export license from the Government. Does this mean that A) it is of vital strategic importance that terrorists are unable to back their data up onto tapes, or B) not only can the government not read PGP encrypted messages, they cant afford a $600 dat drive, or C) the US is the only country with people capable of spraying magnetic particles on a piece of plastic? I can't find a date, so I don't know how old it is, but still... Anyone know anything about this? === Evan Jeffrey erjeffre@artsci.wustl.edu The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. From owner-deschall-announce Fri Jul 18 14:29:12 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA06677 for deschall-outgoing; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:29:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA06669 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:29:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.cis.ohio-state.edu(164.107.8.55) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma006664; Fri, 18 Jul 97 14:28:44 -0400 Received: from colon.cis.ohio-state.edu (colon.cis.ohio-state.edu [164.107.17.3]) by mail.cis.ohio-state.edu (8.6.7/8.6.4) with ESMTP id OAA22804; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:37:55 -0400 Received: from localhost (dolske@localhost) by colon.cis.ohio-state.edu (8.8.0/8.6.4) with SMTP id OAA10198; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:37:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: colon.cis.ohio-state.edu: dolske owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:37:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Justin Dolske To: erjeffre@artsci.wustl.edu cc: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: interesting... In-Reply-To: <199707181813.NAA22124@eliot213.wuh.wustl.edu> Message-ID: X-No-Archive: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Fri, 18 Jul 1997, Evan Jeffrey wrote: > This item is classified as "a strategic commodity / product" in accordance > with the COCOM Agreements. Export of this item may require an export > license from the Government. Hmmph. If it's the same COCOM as in: Then it is some sort of export restriction (although that URL says COCOM disbanded a few years ago... Old tapes? :) > drive, or C) the US is the only country with people capable of spraying > magnetic particles on a piece of plastic? I'll take door C, Monty. At least, that's probably what Uncle Sam would like to believe. BTW, are they still tacking on a charge to DAT's purchaced for audio use? IIRC, when they first came out the music industry was paranoid about losses due to those "perfect digital copies," and so that managed to force through a tax/fee on all "music" DAT's, which would be used to reimburse the music giants for their "losses." Justin Dolske (dolske@cis.ohio-state.edu) Graduate Fellow / Research Associate at The Ohio State University, CIS Dept. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Random Sig-o-Matic (tm) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Witty comment revoked due to budget cuts. From owner-deschall-announce Fri Jul 18 15:50:14 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id PAA07383 for deschall-outgoing; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:50:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id PAA07375 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:50:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hate.sizone.org(209.50.72.17) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma007371; Fri, 18 Jul 97 15:50:04 -0400 Received: by sizone.org (Linux Smail3.1.93 #5) id m0wpJ9O-000H6aC; Fri, 18 Jul 97 15:57:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: From: mathboy@sizone.org (Rheumatobates Hirticulidiablo) Subject: Re: interesting... To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:57:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk From: thoth@purplefrog.com Subject: Re: interesting... (fwd) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:30:41 -0400 > This item is classified as "a strategic commodity / product" in accordance > with the COCOM Agreements. Export of this item may require an export > license from the Government. > > Does this mean that A) it is of vital strategic importance that terrorists > are unable to back their data up onto tapes, or B) not only can the > government not read PGP encrypted messages, they cant afford a $600 dat > drive, or C) the US is the only country with people capable of spraying > magnetic particles on a piece of plastic? No, the trick here is that a 4mm DAT tape written on one drive is completely unreadable on a different drive, making the process of backing up your data an encryption process. (Seriously: 4mm DATs have abominable head alignment problems. I have a couple of tapes that are the only instantiation of data, but the drive they were written with is on the fritz. I'm screwed). -- Bob Forsman thoth@gainesville.fl.us http://www.gainesville.fl.us/~thoth/ -- Ken Chase mathboy@sizone.org Sonic Interzone $free$ email/news Toronto Canada ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Pledge to buy SPAM: help HORMEL sue Cyberpromo! AntiSpam.shmOOze.net/spamdrive/ ** U.S. EXPORT LAWS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOUR COUNTRY: DEVELOP YOUR NATIONS' OWN CRYPTO-EXPORT INDUSTRY! USE 2048bit KEYS FREELY! FLAUNT YOUR SOVEREIGNTY! ** From owner-deschall-announce Fri Jul 18 16:28:44 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA07649 for deschall-outgoing; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 16:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA07644 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 16:28:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.pittstate.edu(198.182.243.14) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma007632; Fri, 18 Jul 97 16:28:15 -0400 Received: (from sas@localhost) by mail.pittstate.edu (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id PAA36268 for deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:36:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Scott Sesher Message-Id: <199707182036.PAA36268@mail.pittstate.edu> Subject: Anyone know ... To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:36:58 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Has anyone been able to download the documentation for IBM recently anounced PCI cryptocard ? I've been stalled at 3% of 172K for a long time now. - sas ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The last thing I want to do is deal | Scott Sesher, Sys Admin with a bunch of people who want something." | Pittsburg State University | sas@pittstate.edu Major Major | Talk Net: (316)-235-4606 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-deschall-announce Mon Jul 21 15:14:58 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id PAA22206 for deschall-outgoing; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:14:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id PAA22201 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from portal.hfdirect.com(207.43.211.97) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma022199; Mon, 21 Jul 97 15:14:54 -0400 Received: from miata (miata.hfdirect.com [207.43.211.109]) by portal.hfdirect.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA00215; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:23:59 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970721142357.0091bcf0@hfdirect.com> X-Sender: dmcnett@hfdirect.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:23:57 -0500 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: David McNett Subject: Re: interesting... Cc: mathboy@sizone.org (Rheumatobates Hirticulidiablo) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk mathboy@sizone.org (Rheumatobates Hirticulidiablo) said: > No, the trick here is that a 4mm DAT tape written on one drive is completely >unreadable on a different drive, making the process of backing up your data an >encryption process. > > (Seriously: 4mm DATs have abominable head alignment problems. I have a >couple of tapes that are the only instantiation of data, but the drive they >were written with is on the fritz. I'm screwed). I would be more inclined to believe that this is a result of having used hardware compression, rather than a head alignment issue. Hardware compression can vary dependant on the firmware of the drive and can cause exactly this sort of problem. If the data is valuable (heh), I've had success in the past by swapping the proms from a dead unit to a new unit and getting a restore done that way. It's also made me VERY aware of the compression setting I use in my backup software now. :) -Dave nugget@slacker.com From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 22 19:48:21 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA02459 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:48:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA02454 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:48:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kelly.iaonline.com(206.68.129.7) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma002452; Tue, 22 Jul 97 19:47:51 -0400 Received: from drizzt (dialup34.iaonline.com [206.68.128.212]) by kelly.iaonline.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA03957 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:59:14 -0500 Message-Id: <199707222359.SAA03957@kelly.iaonline.com> From: "Michael R. McClelland" To: Subject: And the WINNER is??? Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:52:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1008.3 X-MimeOle: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE Engine V4.71.1008.3 Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Well I must have deleted the results of the vote, or else my server did, so which design won? Where do I get one? mike-mcclelland@usa.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/1124/ The Lightning in a BrainStorm is caused by Eclectricityİ