From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 1 08:05:34 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA10367 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:05:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA10358 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esinet1.esinet.net(208.197.151.2) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma010354; Tue, 1 Jul 97 08:04:12 -0400 Received: from onsite1 (dialin34.max4048.esinet.net [208.197.151.161]) by esinet1.esinet.net (8.8.6/ESI-8.8.X-A) with ESMTP id IAA14834; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:13:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707011213.IAA14834@esinet1.esinet.net> From: "Arvin Meyer" To: "Michael R. McClelland" Cc: "DES" Subject: Re: Arms traffik Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:13:05 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1160 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk We're still here ... but nothin' much is going on. Let's stay in touch. There is a new RC5 project competing with Bovine in Finland. http://www.rc5.cyberian.org I haven't decided IF or WHICH I'll join yet. Seems like a lot of bikering and mistrust at Bovine ...not at all like the comraderie here at Deschall. Arvin Meyer On-Site Solutions "Developing results-oriented databases for companies that demand a tangible return on investment." e-mail: onsite@esinet.net phone: (804) 973-9140 http://www.esinet.net/cabg/consult/onsite.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > From: Michael R. McClelland > To: Deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com; Will Koffel > Subject: Re: Arms traffik > Date: Monday, June 30, 1997 7:35 PM > > I thought the list had shut down. I think everyone is on vacation. Two > other lists I'm on went dead and I thought my ISP was screwed up again. > This group is about finished unless you want a T-shirt. RC5 and beyond. > Sincerely, Mike McClelland > From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 1 10:43:01 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA12110 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 10:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA12099 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 10:42:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail-oak-2.pilot.net(198.232.147.17) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma012093; Tue, 1 Jul 97 10:41:39 -0400 Received: from alchpns1.dialcall.com (unknown-2-9.dialcall.com [170.206.2.9]) by mail-oak-2.pilot.net with SMTP id HAA02313 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 07:50:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccmail.nextel.com by alchpns1.dialcall.com (8.6.10/1.34) id KAA22574; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 10:47:03 -0400 Received: from ccMail by ccmail.nextel.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 0000EA16; Tue, 1 Jul 97 10:46:58 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 10:48:13 -0400 Message-ID: <0000EA16.@nextel.com> From: Albert.Garrido@nextel.com (Albert Garrido) Subject: RE: Arms traffik Cc: "DES" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk [snip] Yeppers, there's a lot of that, along with lots of ranting and raving and commentary about it being an open list. ---------- From: "Arvin Meyer" [:] Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 1997 8:13 AM To: "Michael R. McClelland" Cc: "DES" Subject: Re: Arms traffik I haven't decided IF or WHICH I'll join yet. Seems like a lot of bikering and mistrust at Bovine ...not at all like the comraderie here at Deschall. Arvin Meyer On-Site Solutions "Developing results-oriented databases for companies that demand a tangible return on investment." e-mail: onsite@esinet.net phone: (804) 973-9140 http://www.esinet.net/cabg/consult/onsite.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > From: Michael R. McClelland > To: Deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com; Will Koffel > Subject: Re: Arms traffik > Date: Monday, June 30, 1997 7:35 PM > > I thought the list had shut down. I think everyone is on vacation. Two > other lists I'm on went dead and I thought my ISP was screwed up again. > This group is about finished unless you want a T-shirt. RC5 and beyond. > Sincerely, Mike McClelland > From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 1 12:16:46 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id MAA12892 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:16:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id MAA12865 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:15:30 -0400 (EDT) From: bennett_t1@popmail.firn.edu Received: from wizard.firn.edu(150.176.240.99) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma012845; Tue, 1 Jul 97 12:14:31 -0400 Received: from FIRN.firn.edu (JKVAS1-20.firn.edu) by WIZARD.FIRN.EDU (PMDF V5.1-6 #19056) with ESMTP id <01IKQ0N2L6JU000G4B@WIZARD.FIRN.EDU> for deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:27:30 EDT Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 12:18:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Arms traffik To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Reply-to: bennett_t1@popmail.firn.edu Message-id: <33B93BDD.777D8AAF@popmail.firn.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199707011213.IAA14834@esinet1.esinet.net> Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Arvin Meyer wrote: > We're still here ... but nothin' much is going on. Let's stay in > touch. > > There is a new RC5 project competing with Bovine in Finland. > http://www.rc5.cyberian.org > > I haven't decided IF or WHICH I'll join yet. Seems like a lot of > bikering > and mistrust at Bovine ...not at all like the comraderie here at > Deschall. I started a Platform War on RC5 list that got me a killfile from one person :-). > Arvin Meyer > > On-Site Solutions > > "Developing results-oriented databases for companies > that demand a tangible return on investment." > > e-mail: onsite@esinet.net > phone: (804) 973-9140 > http://www.esinet.net/cabg/consult/onsite.html > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > From: Michael R. McClelland > > To: Deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com; Will Koffel > > Subject: Re: Arms traffik > > Date: Monday, June 30, 1997 7:35 PM > > > > I thought the list had shut down. I think everyone is on vacation. > Two > > other lists I'm on went dead and I thought my ISP was screwed up > again. > > This group is about finished unless you want a T-shirt. RC5 and > beyond. > > Sincerely, Mike McClelland > > From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 1 15:46:51 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id PAA14716 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:46:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id PAA14684; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:44:47 -0400 (EDT) From: CCCRE.CCULL@capital.ge.com Received: from ns.ge.com(192.35.39.24) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma014675; Tue, 1 Jul 97 15:44:11 -0400 Received: from thomas.ge.com (thomas.ge.com [3.47.28.21]) by ns.ge.com (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA00118; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:53:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CAPITAL.GE.COM ([3.113.164.135]) by thomas.ge.com (8.8.4/8.7.5) with SMTP id PAA17497; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:52:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by CAPITAL.GE.COM (Soft-Switch LMS 2.0) with snapi via CCCREGWY id 0013800001503479; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:50:03 -0400 To: " - (052)owner-deschall-announce(a)gatekeeper.mega" , " - (052)deschall(a)gatekeeper.megasoft.com" Subject: Re[2]: Arms traffik Message-ID: <0013800001503479000002L092*@MHS> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:50:03 -0400 Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk >I started a Platform War on RC5 list that got me a killfile from one person >:-). ok...i give up. what's a "killfile"????? chris cull cccre.ccull@capital.ge.com From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 1 16:32:25 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA15156 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 16:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA15150 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 16:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maverick.isdn.uiuc.edu(192.17.18.51) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma015146; Tue, 1 Jul 97 16:31:07 -0400 Received: (from dterrell@localhost) by maverick.isdn.uiuc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) id PAA17942; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:40:58 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19970701154057.51935@maverick.isdn.uiuc.edu> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:40:57 -0500 From: David Terrell To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Arms traffik Reply-To: dterrell@uiuc.edu References: <199707011213.IAA14834@esinet1.esinet.net> <33B93BDD.777D8AAF@popmail.firn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.76 In-Reply-To: <33B93BDD.777D8AAF@popmail.firn.edu>; from bennett_t1@popmail.firn.edu on Tue, Jul 01, 1997 at 12:18:23PM -0500 Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, Jul 01, 1997 at 12:18:23PM -0500, bennett_t1@popmail.firn.edu wrote: > I started a Platform War on RC5 list that got me a killfile from one > person :-). You sound surprised. Actually the os wars were one of the most annoying things to happen on the list. Also annoying is the fact that it happens everywhere else. It's such a silly thing really. It's 3/5 personal preference, 1/5 needs and 1/5 administrative pressure. Most of which aren't worth changing. I mean sure, you can rant about how good MacOS is versus HPUX, but WHO REALLY CARES? Those who know don't care -- they have better things to do with their time. Those who don't know argue stupidly. Please, don't do this. I'm not even subscribing to the rc5 list; heck, I'm not even going to participate, because it's just too much damned work to wade the through the crap. Lists of this type need a moderator with a big stick IMHO. -- Dave Terrell dterrell@uiuc.edu finger dterrell@uiuc.edu for pgp key From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 1 17:10:37 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA15525 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 17:10:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA15501 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 17:09:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.earthlink.net(207.217.91.200) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma015451; Tue, 1 Jul 97 17:08:03 -0400 Received: from styx ([207.217.92.240]) by mercury.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA00694; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 14:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707012116.OAA00694@mercury.earthlink.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Brian Murphy" Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc. To: "Michael R. McClelland" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 14:15:02 -8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Arms traffik Reply-to: brianm@earthlink.net CC: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com In-reply-to: <199706302339.SAA00805@kelly.iaonline.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Whats up with those T-shirts anyway? Has anything been finalized? Where do I go to order one if I can? > From: "Michael R. McClelland" > To: , "Will Koffel" > Subject: Re: Arms traffik > Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:35:25 -0500 > I thought the list had shut down. I think everyone is on vacation. > Two other lists I'm on went dead and I thought my ISP was screwed up > again. This group is about finished unless you want a T-shirt. RC5 > and beyond. > Sincerely, Mike McClelland > > ---------- > > From: Will Koffel > > To: Deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com > > Subject: Arms traffik > > Date: Monday, June 30, 1997 12:22 PM > > > > If you all haven't seen this yet, check out > > > > http://online.offshore.com.ai/arms-trafficker/ > > > > It's sort of funny I think. Not the sentiment, but the implimentation. > > > > Also, I haven't gotten any mail from this list in a few days. Is > everyone > > still out there? What happened? TCSHirts still in progress. Maybe > > everyone is hard at work on designs. That must be it. Well, I'll keep > the > > list active, and wait for your artistic brain-children to appear on the > > web. Thanks. > > > > Will Koffel. > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________ > > Will Koffel Course 21M > > (617) 225-6418 ~*_*~ > > wkoffel@mit.edu Course 6 > > MIT '00 http://web.mit.edu/wkoffel/www > > ------------------------------------------- > > > Brian Murphy Network Engineer Earthlink Network, Inc. brianm@earthlink.net From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 1 19:21:18 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA16301 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 19:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA16295 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 19:20:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brickbat8.mindspring.com(207.69.200.11) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma016290; Tue, 1 Jul 97 19:19:58 -0400 Received: from [209.86.12.4] (user-38lc304.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.12.4]) by brickbat8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA06189 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 19:28:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: dakidd@pop.mindspring.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <33B93BDD.777D8AAF@popmail.firn.edu> References: <199707011213.IAA14834@esinet1.esinet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 19:30:33 -0400 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: Dakidd Subject: Re: Arms traffik Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk bennett_t1@popmail.firn.edu wrote: >Arvin Meyer wrote: > >> We're still here ... but nothin' much is going on. Let's stay in >> touch. >> >> There is a new RC5 project competing with Bovine in Finland. >> http://www.rc5.cyberian.org >> >> I haven't decided IF or WHICH I'll join yet. Seems like a lot of >> bikering >> and mistrust at Bovine ...not at all like the comraderie here at >> Deschall. > >I started a Platform War on RC5 list that got me a killfile from one >person :-). Oh boy. What an excellent example of a constructive thing to do. I bet your mom is proud of you, huh? Heck, I'M proud of you! I think I'll nominate you for some sort of medal. Bozo of the Week sounds like a good starting place. And they say that the internet population as a whole is geting brighter... Dakidd@mindspring.com +------------------------------+ +---------------------------------+ |Do you ever get the feel that | |I will choose a path that's clear| |the story's too damn real and | |I will choose free will -Rush | |in the present tense? -J. Tull| +---------------------------------+ +------------------------------+ From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 1 21:18:44 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id VAA16781 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:18:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id VAA16764 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:17:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esinet1.esinet.net(208.197.151.2) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma016754; Tue, 1 Jul 97 21:17:05 -0400 Received: from onsite1 (dialin46.max4048.esinet.net [208.197.151.173]) by esinet1.esinet.net (8.8.6/ESI-8.8.X-A) with ESMTP id VAA10972; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:26:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707020126.VAA10972@esinet1.esinet.net> From: "Arvin Meyer" To: "Dakidd" Cc: "DES" Subject: Re: Arms traffik Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:26:01 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1160 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk >From your snipping, it looks like I started the Platform war. Nope, not me. Read again - carefully! Arvin Meyer onsite@esinet.net ---------- > From: Dakidd > To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com > Subject: Re: Arms traffik > Date: Tuesday, July 01, 1997 7:30 PM > > bennett_t1@popmail.firn.edu wrote: > > >Arvin Meyer wrote: > > > >> We're still here ... but nothin' much is going on. Let's stay in > >> touch. > >> > >> There is a new RC5 project competing with Bovine in Finland. > >> http://www.rc5.cyberian.org > >> > >> I haven't decided IF or WHICH I'll join yet. Seems like a lot of > >> bikering > >> and mistrust at Bovine ...not at all like the comraderie here at > >> Deschall. > > > >I started a Platform War on RC5 list that got me a killfile from one > >person :-). > > Oh boy. What an excellent example of a constructive thing to do. I bet your > mom is proud of you, huh? > > Heck, I'M proud of you! I think I'll nominate you for some sort of medal. > > Bozo of the Week sounds like a good starting place. > > And they say that the internet population as a whole is geting > brighter... > > > Dakidd@mindspring.com +------------------------------+ > +---------------------------------+ |Do you ever get the feel that | > |I will choose a path that's clear| |the story's too damn real and | > |I will choose free will -Rush | |in the present tense? -J. Tull| > +---------------------------------+ +------------------------------+ > From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 1 21:25:45 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id VAA16806 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:25:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id VAA16797 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from friley72-temp.res.iastate.edu(129.186.78.72) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma016795; Tue, 1 Jul 97 21:24:29 -0400 Received: from localhost (vorlon@localhost) by cozad.dodds.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA08497 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:33:27 -0500 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:33:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Langasek To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Arms traffik In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 1 Jul 1997, Dakidd wrote: > And they say that the internet population as a whole is geting > brighter... And who's been spreading THOSE lies? First I've heard about such a phenomenon... While the Internet may be having a positive effect on the brains of the uninitiated, the new users aren't giving the Net anything but grief... -Steve Langasek -doink- From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 1 21:50:55 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id VAA16912 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:50:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id VAA16903 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:50:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.orst.edu(128.193.4.4) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma016898; Tue, 1 Jul 97 21:49:29 -0400 Received: from mist ([205.152.250.48]) by mail.orst.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA14882 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 18:58:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970701185815.00941ba0@128.193.4.5> X-Sender: changk@128.193.4.5 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 18:58:15 -0700 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: Keith Chang Subject: Re: Arms traffik In-Reply-To: <19970701154057.51935@maverick.isdn.uiuc.edu> References: <33B93BDD.777D8AAF@popmail.firn.edu> <199707011213.IAA14834@esinet1.esinet.net> <33B93BDD.777D8AAF@popmail.firn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Dave Terrell wrote: >Please, don't do this. I'm not even subscribing to the rc5 list; heck, >I'm not even going to participate, because it's just too much damned >work to wade the through the crap. Lists of this type need a moderator >with a big stick IMHO. I wish the RC5 group had something like the deschall-announce list that was going here. Cut out all the junk and give the significant stuff, like stat milestones, new versions and bug workarounds. -Keith From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 1 23:54:13 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA17186 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 23:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA17179 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 23:53:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown(204.252.20.9) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma017177; Tue, 1 Jul 97 23:52:37 -0400 Received: (from sigma@localhost) by ishmael.nmh.northfield.ma.us (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA07534; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 00:04:51 -0400 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 00:04:51 -0400 From: "Seth D. Schoen" Message-Id: <199707020404.AAA07534@ishmael.nmh.northfield.ma.us> To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com, onsite@esinet.net Subject: Re: Arms traffik Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Arvin Meyer writes of > bickering and mistrust at Bovine ... not at all like the comraderie > here at Deschall. I agree. Although I'm an enthusiastic and continuing supporter of Bovine RC5, promote it in my web page, and discuss it with others, I am surprised at the relative disorganization. They have not kept open source code (or not exactly -- the subject of a long technical discussion as well as some misinformation), which had originally seemed like one of the major differences. Bovine RC5 is a good thing, and the existence of distributed.net wonderful, but I would certainly more readily have joined an RC5 cracking effort (or any distributed computing effort) co-ordinated by Rocke. I almost wish that you had gone ahead and started a successor to DESCHALL, Rocke, although I know you have other things to do. It's strange to see the Bovine mailing list with - longtime Bovine veterans - DESCHALL veterans - SolNet veterans - entirely new users - people who wish they were a part of the development effort all of whom have (understandably) extremely different perspectives on the project, and even, perhaps, somewhat different loyalties. It unfortunately does, to date, lack the same cohesion and sense of unity which DESCHALL enjoyed and which I miss. But Bovine RC5 is also a very noble effort. -- Nothing is more dangerous for man's private morality than the habit of commanding. The best man, the most intelligent, disinterested, generous, pure, will infallibly and always be spoiled at this trade. -- Mikhail A. Bakunin (thanks to Rabbi Albert Axelrad) From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 00:43:00 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA17567 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 00:43:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA17558 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 00:42:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from watcher.rh1.iit.edu(198.37.25.242) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma017554; Wed, 2 Jul 97 00:41:38 -0400 Received: from localhost (beberg@localhost) by watcher.highlander.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA08966; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:51:16 -0500 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:51:16 -0500 (CDT) From: "Adam L. Beberg" X-Sender: beberg@watcher.highlander.org To: Keith Chang cc: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Arms traffik In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970701185815.00941ba0@128.193.4.5> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 1 Jul 1997, Keith Chang wrote: > I wish the RC5 group had something like the deschall-announce list that was > going here. Cut out all the junk and give the significant stuff, like stat > milestones, new versions and bug workarounds. Actually, we do. Have for some time now. - Adam L. Beberg beberg@distributed.net distributed.net coordinator http://www.iit.edu/~beberg/ From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 01:08:36 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id BAA17678 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 01:08:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id BAA17671 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 01:07:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.jfku.edu(204.161.52.10) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma017662; Wed, 2 Jul 97 01:07:08 -0400 Received: by jfku.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA04386; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:16:02 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:16:02 -0700 Message-Id: <9707020516.AA04386@jfku.edu> To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Arms traffik In-Reply-To: Mail from '"Seth D. Schoen" ' dated: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 00:04:51 -0400 From: "Karl J. Runge" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk I just wish DESCHALL had to go to 50% of the keyspace instead of 25% !!! (and still have DESCHALL win!) Hats off to Rocke for a great project! I really admired his KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid!) philosophy that paid off so well, and made things so enjoyable and error free. I don't know if many on this list knew that Rocke managed the whole key service thru a 28.8 ppp connection, but he did. And for the bulk of the contest did it on with 486, and only at the end upgraded to a pentium. These facts still amaze me! In a certain sense, 2^56 keys is "trivial". Cheers, Karl, On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, "Seth D. Schoen" wrote: > Arvin Meyer writes of > > bickering and mistrust at Bovine ... not at all like the comraderie > > here at Deschall. > > I agree. Although I'm an enthusiastic and continuing supporter of > Bovine RC5, promote it in my web page, and discuss it with others, I am > surprised at the relative disorganization. They have not kept open > source code (or not exactly -- the subject of a long technical > discussion as well as some misinformation), which had originally seemed > like one of the major differences. > > Bovine RC5 is a good thing, and the existence of distributed.net > wonderful, but I would certainly more readily have joined an RC5 > cracking effort (or any distributed computing effort) co-ordinated by > Rocke. I almost wish that you had gone ahead and started a successor > to DESCHALL, Rocke, although I know you have other things to do. > > It's strange to see the Bovine mailing list with > > - longtime Bovine veterans > - DESCHALL veterans > - SolNet veterans > - entirely new users > - people who wish they were a part of the development effort > > all of whom have (understandably) extremely different perspectives on > the project, and even, perhaps, somewhat different loyalties. > > It unfortunately does, to date, lack the same cohesion and sense of > unity which DESCHALL enjoyed and which I miss. But Bovine RC5 is also > a very noble effort. From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 05:59:38 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id FAA18515 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 05:59:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id FAA18509 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 05:58:57 -0400 (EDT) From: techs@obfuscation.org Received: from unknown(208.209.25.230) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma018507; Wed, 2 Jul 97 05:58:11 -0400 Received: (qmail 4967 invoked from network); 2 Jul 1997 09:04:22 -0000 Received: from idoru.obfuscation.org (qmailr@208.209.25.239) by gomi.obfuscation.org with SMTP; 2 Jul 1997 09:04:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 3387 invoked by uid 10); 2 Jul 1997 10:07:07 -0000 Message-ID: <19970702100707.3386.qmail@idoru.obfuscation.org> Subject: Re: Arms traffik To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 06:07:07 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: techs@obfuscation.org Organization: little tiny brain pan full of baked apricots, inc. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 PGP3 *ALPHA*] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk > I just wish DESCHALL had to go to 50% of the keyspace instead of 25% !!! > (and still have DESCHALL win!) IMHO, 25% is a nicer number to be tossed around in the media.. Crypto-Clueless people (read: most everyone) won't know the Monty Hall Problem (tm) of searching a large keyspace and will make assumptions just like many of the people on the DESCHALL list did about "how to search the keyspace" and think that Rocke et al. found the One True Way to find keys in a hurry (which isn't entirely wrong.. throw an insane amount of hardware at the problem.. but i digress..) > Hats off to Rocke for a great project! I really admired his KISS > (Keep It Simple, Stupid!) philosophy that paid off so well, and made > things so enjoyable and error free. Its funny.. I didn't quite appreciate just how much effort Rocke put into making it enjoyable and error free until i started working on Bovine.. I'd been on the DES Violation team for its short lifespan and chalked up all it's problems to mismanagement and DESCHALL just seemed like the Right Way. Bovine has the same problems as DES Violation had, only theres no competition to run them out of business.. > On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, "Seth D. Schoen" wrote: > > I agree. Although I'm an enthusiastic and continuing supporter of > > Bovine RC5, promote it in my web page, and discuss it with others, I am > > surprised at the relative disorganization. They have not kept open > > source code (or not exactly -- the subject of a long technical > > discussion as well as some misinformation), which had originally seemed > > like one of the major differences. > > > > It's strange to see the Bovine mailing list with > > > > - longtime Bovine veterans > > - DESCHALL veterans > > - SolNet veterans > > - entirely new users > > - people who wish they were a part of the development effort > > > > all of whom have (understandably) extremely different perspectives on > > > the project, and even, perhaps, somewhat different loyalties. > > > > It unfortunately does, to date, lack the same cohesion and sense of > > unity which DESCHALL enjoyed and which I miss. But Bovine RC5 is also > > a very noble effort. Its a noble effort, i won't argue that, but i will whine a little and point out my problems with Bovine on the off chance that the coordinators solve the "problem" down the road.... The Mailing List: The mailing list is an accurate picture of the team as a whole, IMHO, and DESCHALL was a single minded force, while Bovine is a fractured group of political infighting and babble. DESCHALL e-mail was a status update on The Cause (tm) when it came into my mailbox.... Bovine e-mail is like reading UseNet with all it's various me-toos, flames, bickering, personal differences, and hidden agendas. I dropped the list before the v2 clients came out. The Clients: The selection of clients shows (to me, anyway) an incredible bias toward platform selection. If you dont have a system that you ran out and bought at ComputerLand, dont bother showing up. Intel is everywhere. PPC's get a token mention if you run MkLinux, and Solaris 5.x (presumably because they're the unix workstation for cheap in the business world). There are no SparcLinux, AlphaLinux, SunOS 4.1.x, NeXT, Mac68k, HP, AIX (although this runs on PPC hardware), IRIX, DECUnix, etc... etc... clients in the new V2 selection.. To my untrained eye, this means that Bovine wasn't able to come up with sufficently talented developers to optimize the clients for any particular platform, and it gives the appearance of not caring what you're running the client on as long as it's Intel. ("any color you want, as long as it's black"). They disdain the use of V1 clients for efficency reasons and the fear of Trojan Horses and Rogue clients using the v1 protocol to screw the effort up, but they dont go out of their way to REPLACE the entirity of the V1 client set with the new clients. Obvious where their loyalties are. So my piddling amount of CPU in mostly non-intel flavor is sitting around idle.. the Feeling is gone. thanks. DESCHALL made a difference and gave at least me the hope for a greater future of distributed computing and cameraderie. Bovine crushes all that under the immense weight of babble, bickering, and poor support for the people who donate cpu time. I've said my peace.... Dont reply unless you absolutely have to, theres no real reason to start a big thread over it.. -- (emf:erik fichtner:techs:discursive melancholia) "It's true. No man is an island. But if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a pretty good raft."- Red Meat http://www.obfuscation.org/~techs N 39 10.409' W 77 11.750' From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 05:50:43 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id FAA18490 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 05:50:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id FAA18481 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 05:49:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brickbat8.mindspring.com(207.69.200.11) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma018477; Wed, 2 Jul 97 05:49:22 -0400 Received: from [209.86.12.59] (user-38lc31r.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.12.59]) by brickbat8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA09222; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 05:58:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: dakidd@pop.mindspring.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199707020126.VAA10972@esinet1.esinet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:03:50 -0400 To: "Arvin Meyer" From: Dakidd Subject: Re: Arms traffik Cc: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Arvin Meyer wrote: >>From your snipping, it looks like I started the Platform war. Nope, not me. > >Read again - carefully! I was attempting to be careful with the snipping. It was clear enough to me that it wasn't you that was gloating about doing something as incredibly stupid as starting a platform war, but rather, this "bennett_t1" creature. Sorry for the misunderstanding caused by my snipping. > >Arvin Meyer >onsite@esinet.net > >---------- >> From: Dakidd >> To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com >> Subject: Re: Arms traffik >> Date: Tuesday, July 01, 1997 7:30 PM >> >> bennett_t1@popmail.firn.edu wrote: >> >> >Arvin Meyer wrote: >> > >> >> We're still here ... but nothin' much is going on. Let's stay in >> >> touch. >> >> >> >> There is a new RC5 project competing with Bovine in Finland. >> >> http://www.rc5.cyberian.org >> >> >> >> I haven't decided IF or WHICH I'll join yet. Seems like a lot of >> >> bikering >> >> and mistrust at Bovine ...not at all like the comraderie here at >> >> Deschall. >> > >> >I started a Platform War on RC5 list that got me a killfile from one >> >person :-). >> >> Oh boy. What an excellent example of a constructive thing to do. I bet >your >> mom is proud of you, huh? >> >> Heck, I'M proud of you! I think I'll nominate you for some sort of medal. >> >> Bozo of the Week sounds like a good starting place. >> >> And they say that the internet population as a whole is >geting >> brighter... >> >> >> Dakidd@mindspring.com +------------------------------+ >> +---------------------------------+ |Do you ever get the feel that | >> |I will choose a path that's clear| |the story's too damn real and | >> |I will choose free will -Rush | |in the present tense? -J. Tull| >> +---------------------------------+ +------------------------------+ >> Dakidd@mindspring.com +------------------------------+ +---------------------------------+ |Do you ever get the feel that | |I will choose a path that's clear| |the story's too damn real and | |I will choose free will -Rush | |in the present tense? -J. Tull| +---------------------------------+ +------------------------------+ From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 08:53:57 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA19524 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 08:53:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA19515 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 08:53:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gw.research.megasoft.com(206.230.35.93) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma019510; Wed, 2 Jul 97 08:52:34 -0400 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gw.research.megasoft.com (8.7.5/8.7.3-cmcurtin) id JAA26575; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:13:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from goffette.research.megasoft.com(192.168.1.2) by gw.research.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma026573; Wed, 2 Jul 97 09:13:15 -0400 Received: (from cmcurtin@localhost) by goffette.research.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA20213; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 08:58:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970701220241.00a30860@hfdirect.com> X-Sender: dmcnett@hfdirect.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 22:02:41 -0500 To: Keith Chang , deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: David McNett Subject: Re: Arms traffik In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970701185815.00941ba0@128.193.4.5> References: <19970701154057.51935@maverick.isdn.uiuc.edu> <33B93BDD.777D8AAF@popmail.firn.edu> <199707011213.IAA14834@esinet1.esinet.net> <33B93BDD.777D8AAF@popmail.firn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk At 06:58 p 1-07-1997 -0700, Keith Chang wrote: >I wish the RC5 group had something like the deschall-announce list that was >going here. Cut out all the junk and give the significant stuff, like stat >milestones, new versions and bug workarounds. Just for the record, there is an announce-only list. Just send the standard "subscribe rc5-announce" message to majordomo@llamas.net and you're set. -David McNett nugget@slacker.com From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 12:46:58 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id MAA21059 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:46:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id MAA21051 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:46:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lucifer.testlab.orst.edu(128.193.78.11) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma021047; Wed, 2 Jul 97 12:46:28 -0400 Received: by lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:01:41 -0700 Message-ID: <71846B925036CF11BD6D00C0D15709291274ED@lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU> From: Adam Haberlach To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com, "'rc5@llamas.net'" Subject: T-shirt interest... DES Challenge Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:01:39 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Sorry for sending this to the rc5 list, too...I think people have been dropping off of the deschall list, and I wanted to get them as well. I have created a simple CGI voting script for people to submit suggestions for T-shirts, and to record their interest. I should have done this a while ago, and I hope it isn't too late to get anyone's attention. I have it set up at http://www.engr.orst.edu/~haberlad/tshirt.html. It's pretty rudimentry right now. Mail me if you have any suggestions about the SCRIPT. Suggestions for the T-shirt should be submitted by the cgi script itself. - --- Adam Haberlach http://www.testlab.orst.edu/~haberlaa Free Lottery Tickets! Odds: 1/72,000,000,000,000 http://rc5.distributed.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBM7ol6RSmwqZasiJdAQGFuAQAmiliiX5aV+2WsaY9A5vxMqj+608ZzGma 6/g/Gg1FVMofn3+CgcO8cmL3gjLjbajCjVCKpmVO0tWJwhEoL5HiOn4EoyqmW4OF GCsZPB7z0uBIHPLq7QdR1LRZYWRt/q1OteQZSEV0aHxt1KQ09Zxm0rusVI5lJ8DK jcNum1DGjGE= =Np2D -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 13:10:28 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id NAA21172 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:10:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id NAA21166 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:10:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gw.usorder.com(204.4.28.2) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma021161; Wed, 2 Jul 97 13:09:59 -0400 Received: (from shutdown@localhost) by fw.usorder.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) id MAA14257; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:52:45 -0400 Received: from reddog.intelidata.com(192.168.40.1) by fw.usorder.com via smap (V2.0beta) id xma014252; Wed, 2 Jul 97 12:52:35 -0400 Received: from distribution.usorder.com by usorder.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA26011; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:09:05 -0400 Received: from totoro.usorder.com by distribution.usorder.com (8.6.12/ADD-KEV-4.1) id LAA26388; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:16:55 -0600 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:19:10 -0400 Message-ID: <01BC86EA.86C72A80.sstuart@intelidata.com> From: Shaun Stuart - Keeper Of All Knowledge To: "'Adam Haberlach'" , "deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com" , "'rc5@llamas.net'" Subject: RE: T-shirt interest... DES Challenge Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:19:08 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4128 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Wednesday, July 02, 1997 1:02 PM, Adam Haberlach [SMTP:HaberlaA@testlab.orst.edu] wrote: > I have created a simple CGI voting script for people to submit > suggestions for T-shirts, and to record their interest. I > should have done this a while ago, and I hope it isn't too late > to get anyone's attention. > > I have it set up at > http://www.engr.orst.edu/~haberlad/tshirt.html. Actually, it's at http://www.engr.orst.edu/~haberlad/desch/tshirt.html Shaun From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 13:26:58 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id NAA21282 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:26:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id NAA21274 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:26:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailhost.carreker.com(206.50.131.2) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma021269; Wed, 2 Jul 97 13:26:38 -0400 Received: by tcg_nt1.carreker.com from localhost (router,SLMail V2.5); Wed, 02 Jul 1997 12:35:49 -0600 Received: by tcg_nt1.carreker.com from mailhost.atl.carreker.com (206.104.97.10::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.5); Wed, 02 Jul 1997 12:35:48 -0600 Received: from 206.50.243.183 by mailhost.atl.carreker.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1457.7) id N9BRXV6G; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:39:54 -0400 From: "Skip Huffman" To: "Adam Haberlach" , "deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com" , "rc5@llamas.net" Date: Wed, 02 Jul 97 13:34:48 -0400 Reply-To: "=?iso-8859-0?q?Skip_Huffman,_Carreker_Antinori?=" X-Mailer: PMMail 1.91+ Running at WARP Speed X-Tag: ** TagIt/2 v1.4 ** for PMMail by Robert Spangler MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [rc5] T-shirt interest... DES Challenge Message-Id: <19970702123549.024a9878.in@tcg_nt1.carreker.com> Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:01:39 -0700, Adam Haberlach wrote: >I have created a simple CGI voting script for people to submit >suggestions for T-shirts, and to record their interest. I >should have done this a while ago, and I hope it isn't too late >to get anyone's attention. > > I have it set up at >http://www.engr.orst.edu/~haberlad/tshirt.html. You are 404 man. I can get to your resume` page, but not to the tshirt page. Sorry, Skip Huffman Carreker-Antinori Atlanta Office Quality Group From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 14:14:32 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA21592 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:14:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA21581; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magic.adaptec.com(162.62.21.8) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma021575; Wed, 2 Jul 97 14:14:02 -0400 Received: from kingdom.adaptec.com by adaptec.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA02010; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:23:16 -0700 Received: from eng.adaptec.com by kingdom.adaptec.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA21497; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:23:14 -0700 Received: from starbug by eng.adaptec.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02283; Wed, 2 Jul 97 11:22:34 PDT Message-Id: <9707021822.AA02283@eng.adaptec.com> To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com, owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com X-Mailer: Post Road Mailer for OS/2 (Green Edition Ver 2.5) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:19:55 PST From: Aaron Williams Reply-To: aaronw@eng.adaptec.com Subject: Re: Arms traffik Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk ** Reply to note from "Karl J. Runge" Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:16:02 -0700 > I don't know if many on this list knew that Rocke managed the whole > key service thru a 28.8 ppp connection, but he did. And for the bulk > of the contest did it on with 486, and only at the end upgraded to > a pentium. These facts still amaze me! In a certain sense, 2^56 keys is > "trivial". I think part of that is due to the effecient UDP protocol Rocke devised. For this application UDP rocks (no pun intended) compared to TCP. It also requires a lot less work on the part of the server and TCP/IP stack, as well as less traffic. Let's see, send a single packet to the server when completing a block or starting a new run, and receive a single packet response from the server. Very effecient and well thought out. I'm now on Bovine, but they don't have a working proxy, nor even a SunOS proxy (which would be perfect, since only a few SunOS machines here have socks access through our firewall). -Aaron > > Cheers, > > Karl, ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aaron Williams Adaptec, Inc. aaronw@eng.adaptec.com (408) 945-8600 x3425 Inter-Networking Technology Check out our web site at HTTP://www.adaptec.com/networking/ATM.html Personal Java-based home page at HTTP://24.1.65.193 From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 15:18:00 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id PAA22062 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:18:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id PAA22057 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:17:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lucifer.testlab.orst.edu(128.193.78.11) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma022054; Wed, 2 Jul 97 15:17:39 -0400 Received: by lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:32:52 -0700 Message-ID: <71846B925036CF11BD6D00C0D15709291274EE@lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU> From: Adam Haberlach To: "'deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com'" , "'rc5@llamas.net'" Subject: DES Challenge T-shirt (Sorry) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:32:50 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Once more, sorry for posting into rc5. The correct URL is: http://www.engr.orst.edu/~haberlad/desch/tshirt.html. Once again, any suggestions regarding T-shirts should be submitted via the script. Any suggestions regarding the script should be submitted via e-mail (to me). - --- Adam Haberlach http://www.testlab.orst.edu/~haberlaa Free Lottery Tickets! Odds: 1/72,000,000,000,000 http://rc5.distributed.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBM7pJWhSmwqZasiJdAQFl3gP/ZZt6AQeeDSDHIo+Uo70lQYepC+aUbriw BmrMPabq7CJpCRb+LKeIbQbQqBotPIN2/XBbqc3yaWONnIC6ceZrNE5zMBr/xLT7 gQd3W2qtFIjatWXiS9ybKRYx13MIjDtshYPxfwLOGQqc3GzTY7wSWDStkEdvn63d gH1S5w/a00M= =2OI8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 16:25:02 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA22610 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:25:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA22605 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:25:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from f02s02.tac.net(205.233.109.40) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma022600; Wed, 2 Jul 97 16:24:40 -0400 Received: from osg01x.suncor-osg.com ([199.85.9.10]) by f02s02.tac.net (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id OAA27404 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:33:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by osg01x.suncor-osg.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BC86F5.8F65BC50@osg01x.suncor-osg.com>; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:38:09 -0600 Message-ID: From: "Thompson, Christopher" To: "'deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com'" Subject: Plaintext Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:38:07 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Something's been bothering me for a few days. If we hadn't have known _anything_ about the plain text of the DES-encrypted message, we wouldn't have been able to decrypt it, even using brute force. Is this correct? From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 16:50:02 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA22844 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:50:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA22835 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:50:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gs213.sp.cs.cmu.edu(128.2.209.183) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma022826; Wed, 2 Jul 97 16:49:44 -0400 Received: by GS213.SP.CS.CMU.EDU (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA35183; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:58:46 -0400 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:58:46 -0400 Message-Id: <9707022058.AA35183@GS213.SP.CS.CMU.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Darrell Kindred To: "Thompson, Christopher" Cc: "'deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com'" Subject: Re: Plaintext Organization: Carnegie Mellon University School of Computer Science In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Thompson, Christopher writes: > Something's been bothering me for a few days. > > If we hadn't have known _anything_ about the plain text of the > DES-encrypted message, we wouldn't have been able to decrypt it, even > using brute force. Is this correct? That's correct. If you have no way to distinguish the correct decrypted message from random gibberish, then brute-force keysearch won't help you. However, in most cryptographic applications, you do know at least something about the output you expect; you may know that it's English text, that it probably contains no "control characters", or that it has certain header fields. The search is most efficient if you know exactly what you're looking for, but even if you just have a moderately quick way to separate the wheat from the chaff, brute-force key search can do the job. - Darrell From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 17:10:03 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA22927 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 17:10:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA22922 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 17:10:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury.earthlink.net(207.217.91.200) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma022915; Wed, 2 Jul 97 17:09:55 -0400 Received: from styx ([207.217.92.240]) by mercury.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA15217; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:18:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707022118.OAA15217@mercury.earthlink.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Brian Murphy" Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc. To: "Thompson, Christopher" Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:17:02 -8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Plaintext Reply-to: brianm@earthlink.net CC: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk > From: "Thompson, Christopher" > To: "'deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com'" > Subject: Plaintext > Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:38:07 -0600 > Something's been bothering me for a few days. > > If we hadn't have known _anything_ about the plain text of the > DES-encrypted message, we wouldn't have been able to decrypt it, > even using brute force. Is this correct? It would have been just as easy to hit the correct key, it just would have been a little harder to realize when it was that you found it, without knowing at least something about what was inside, whether it be a known string, or knowing that it was something in English, or whatever. If the secret message had just been itself a random series of characters, there would have been no way to figure out if you had the right one, or not. It wasn't all too unrealistic of RSA to provide some known plaintext though. In most real world applications, you'll have at least some information about what's inside, whether it's time-stamps, or headers, on a Word document, or whatever. > > > Brian Murphy Network Engineer Earthlink Network, Inc. brianm@earthlink.net From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 17:10:08 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA22932 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 17:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA22921 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 17:10:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu(128.113.100.7) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma022911; Wed, 2 Jul 97 17:09:31 -0400 Received: from eclipse.its.rpi.edu (gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu [128.113.24.33]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA149498 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 17:18:45 -0400 Received: by eclipse.its.rpi.edu (NX5.67e/NX3.0M) id AA23177; Wed, 2 Jul 97 17:18:42 -0400 Message-Id: <9707022118.AA23177@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Garance A Drosehn Date: Wed, 2 Jul 97 17:18:40 -0400 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Plaintext References: Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Christopher Thompson writes: > Something's been bothering me for a few days. > > If we hadn't have known _anything_ about the plain text of the > DES-encrypted message, we wouldn't have been able to decrypt it, > even using brute force. Is this correct? It would have been a bit more work to decrypt it, but that's just a matter of applying a bit more force to the brute-force method. You'd have to add some heuristic to determine if a given key decrypted it into something that "kinda looks like a message". This wouldn't be too bad if we know the message was in english, but it would get even tougher if we didn't know the language the message was written in. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer (MIME & NeXTmail capable) Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 17:28:03 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA23047 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 17:28:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA23042 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 17:28:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from eliot213.wuh.wustl.edu(128.252.105.213) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023039; Wed, 2 Jul 97 17:27:35 -0400 Received: from eliot213.wuh.wustl.edu (ejeffrey@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eliot213.wuh.wustl.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA10288 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:36:48 -0500 Message-Id: <199707022136.QAA10288@eliot213.wuh.wustl.edu> Reply-To: erjeffre@artsci.wustl.edu To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Plaintext In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Jul 1997 14:38:07 MDT." Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 16:36:48 -0500 From: Evan Jeffrey Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk >Something's been bothering me for a few days. > >If we hadn't have known _anything_ about the plain text of the >DES-encrypted message, we wouldn't have been able to decrypt it, even >using brute force. Is this correct? True. You need some way to determine when you have the right code. This isn't really a problem, as almost all messages have some sort of headers or other identifying information. But no, other than that there is no real way to detetermine one set of random-looking noise from any other. === Evan Jeffrey erjeffre@artsci.wustl.edu The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 18:00:35 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23290 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:00:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23283 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:00:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pinotnoir.media.mit.edu(18.85.16.104) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023278; Wed, 2 Jul 97 18:00:19 -0400 Received: (from nelson@localhost) by pinotnoir.media.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.4) id SAA24714; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:08:47 -0400 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:08:47 -0400 Message-Id: <199707022208.SAA24714@pinotnoir.media.mit.edu> From: nelson@media.mit.edu (Nelson Minar) To: brianm@earthlink.net Cc: "Thompson, Christopher" , deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Plaintext In-Reply-To: <199707022118.OAA15217@mercury.earthlink.net> References: <199707022118.OAA15217@mercury.earthlink.net> Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk >In most real world applications, you'll have at least some >information about what's inside, whether it's time-stamps, or >headers, on a Word document, or whatever. This is basic canon for cryptanalysis, but I'm not sure I believe it. PGP, for instance, does its best to compress the data up to maximum entropy to prevent analysis on the plaintext. What do you do in that circumstance? From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 18:03:35 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23306 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:03:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23301 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:03:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from calliope1.fm.intel.com(132.233.247.10) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023299; Wed, 2 Jul 97 18:03:11 -0400 Received: from mcd.intel.com by calliope1.fm.intel.com (8.8.4/10.0i); Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:12:24 GMT Received: from fmwu74 (fmwu74.fm.intel.com [132.233.81.35]) by mcd.intel.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA26520 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:12:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:12:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Collin Ong X-Sender: collin@fmwu74 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Plaintext In-Reply-To: <9707022118.AA23177@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Garance A Drosehn wrote: > This wouldn't be too bad if we know the message was in english, > but it would get even tougher if we didn't know the language > the message was written in. So maybe an easy letter substitution cypher or some such applied before the encryption would do alot of good even given the simplicity of the cypher. It would make detecting a correct brute force key alot harder. Collin Ong From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 18:06:05 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23325 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:06:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23320 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:06:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b426wfee-1.nursing.msu.edu(35.8.144.96) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023318; Wed, 2 Jul 97 18:05:55 -0400 Received: (from hagmanti@localhost) by hagmanti.nursing.msu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA13329 for deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:15:08 -0400 Message-Id: <199707022215.SAA13329@hagmanti.nursing.msu.edu> Subject: Re: Plaintext To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:15:07 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199707022208.SAA24714@pinotnoir.media.mit.edu> from "Nelson Minar" at Jul 2, 97 06:08:47 pm From: "Timothy C. Hagman" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Nelson Minar penned, off the top of the head: > entropy to prevent analysis on the plaintext. What do you do in that > circumstance? Find the holder of the passphrase, point a gun at him or her, and demand it. Cheap, effective, and nearly always yields results. (And most major governments can afford guns ;) That's why it's only "Pretty Good" Privacy. There's this little loophole. :) Me -- Disclaimer: Anything I said, writ, or thought in my life should not necessarily be held or thought to imply any view, opinion, or idea of mine, any organization I have chosen to associate with, or those people who choose to associate with me. - hagmanti@pilot.msu.edu From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 18:06:35 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23340 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:06:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23335 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:06:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hermes.services.ou.edu(129.15.2.121) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023333; Wed, 2 Jul 97 18:06:29 -0400 Received: from skaro.dsa.ou.edu by hermes.services.ou.edu with ESMTP; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 17:15:43 -0500 X-Sender: greg@129.15.75.70 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 17:14:40 -0500 To: "Thompson, Christopher" , "'deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com'" From: Greg Trotter Subject: Re: Plaintext Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk At 3:38 PM -0500 7/2/97, Thompson, Christopher wrote: >Something's been bothering me for a few days. > >If we hadn't have known _anything_ about the plain text of the >DES-encrypted message, we wouldn't have been able to decrypt it, even >using brute force. Is this correct? Right. As others have pointed out, however, someone trying to crack encrypted data will probably have some idea as to what's inside. Now... data that is multiply encrypted offers a great deal more protection, I imagine... once you find the correct key for the outermost later of encryption, the data you have is still encrypted. I don't profess to know a lot about encryption, but I would imagine that the encrypted data underneath might not be detectable as the proper data. - greg -- Greg Trotter Production Manager, Student Publications The University of Oklahoma greg@ou.edu From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 18:18:36 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23423 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:18:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23418 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:18:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gs213.sp.cs.cmu.edu(128.2.209.183) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023416; Wed, 2 Jul 97 18:18:25 -0400 Received: by GS213.SP.CS.CMU.EDU (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA43180; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:27:36 -0400 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:27:36 -0400 Message-Id: <9707022227.AA43180@GS213.SP.CS.CMU.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Darrell Kindred To: Nelson Minar Cc: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Plaintext Organization: Carnegie Mellon University School of Computer Science In-Reply-To: <199707022208.SAA24714@pinotnoir.media.mit.edu> References: <199707022118.OAA15217@mercury.earthlink.net> <199707022208.SAA24714@pinotnoir.media.mit.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Nelson Minar writes: > >In most real world applications, you'll have at least some > >information about what's inside, whether it's time-stamps, or > >headers, on a Word document, or whatever. > > This is basic canon for cryptanalysis, but I'm not sure I believe it. > PGP, for instance, does its best to compress the data up to maximum > entropy to prevent analysis on the plaintext. What do you do in that > circumstance? Well, in the worst case, you can just try a decryption key, then see if the result uncompresses properly, then see if the uncompressed text looks like what you expected to see. Compressing plaintext may complicate the brute-force attack, but it doesn't prevent it. - Darrell From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 18:20:07 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23453 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:20:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23442 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:20:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from s5-25-55.student.washington.edu(128.95.25.55) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023432; Wed, 2 Jul 97 18:19:41 -0400 Received: (from xyzzy@localhost) by s5-25-55.student.washington.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA28528; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:28:53 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:28:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Trent Piepho To: DESCHALL Subject: Re: Plaintext In-Reply-To: <199707022215.SAA13329@hagmanti.nursing.msu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Timothy C. Hagman wrote: > Nelson Minar penned, off the top of the head: > > entropy to prevent analysis on the plaintext. What do you do in that > > circumstance? > > Find the holder of the passphrase, point a gun at him or her, and > demand it. Cheap, effective, and nearly always yields results. > (And most major governments can afford guns ;) The gun isn't even necessary. Just call them up and say you're from net ops or something. All this talk about attacking cryptographic algorithms is kind of silly, since the weak link by far is people. It would have been much faster to brute force open the desk at RSA where someone wrote the key down. |Gazing up to the breeze of the heavens \ on a quest, meaning, reason | |came to be, how it begun \ all alone in the family of the sun | |curiosity teasing everyone \ on our home, third stone from the sun. | |Trent Piepho (xyzzy@u.washington.edu) -- Metallica | From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 18:32:06 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23519 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:32:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23513 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:32:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from s5-25-55.student.washington.edu(128.95.25.55) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023509; Wed, 2 Jul 97 18:31:55 -0400 Received: (from xyzzy@localhost) by s5-25-55.student.washington.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA28558; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:41:19 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:41:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Trent Piepho To: DESCHALL Subject: technical DES stuff Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Since this list seems to be winding down, I wondered if anyone knew of a place to talk about the technical issues of cracking DES? I wanted to design a DES cracking ASIC as a class project, but the professor said it was too easy?!, we did an 8-bit CPU instead. I'd still like to work on a DES cracking chip, maybe make it a senior project or something. I wonder where I could find out about ways to speed up the search from the obvious method. I think I read on this list that it possible to eliminate a key after 12 rounds instead of 16. I can see how to do it in 15, but not 12. I know most speedups are "software" things and don't apply to a hardware implementation, where P-boxes are free and a 48-bit XOR is just as fast as a 32-bit XOR. |Gazing up to the breeze of the heavens \ on a quest, meaning, reason | |came to be, how it begun \ all alone in the family of the sun | |curiosity teasing everyone \ on our home, third stone from the sun. | |Trent Piepho (xyzzy@u.washington.edu) -- Metallica | From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 18:52:37 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23647 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:52:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA23642 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.5.101) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023640; Wed, 2 Jul 97 18:52:21 -0400 Received: from primenet.com (root@mailhost02.primenet.com [206.165.5.53]) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA11485 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:01:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhost.primenet.com (ip47-171.fhu.primenet.com [206.165.47.171]) by primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA11822 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:01:33 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199707022301.QAA11822@primenet.com> To: "'deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com'" X-Mailer: Post Road Mailer for OS/2 (Green Edition Ver 2.5) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:01:27 MST From: Stephen Haffly Reply-To: Stephen Haffly Subject: Re: Plaintext Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk ** Reply to note from "Thompson, Christopher" Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:38:07 -0600 > > Something's been bothering me for a few days. > > If we hadn't have known _anything_ about the plain text of the > DES-encrypted message, we wouldn't have been able to decrypt it, > even using brute force. Is this correct? > > > No, it would have made the job more difficult as each attempt would have had to be checked with something akin to a spelling checker to see if any legitimate words were there. It probably would have then needed to be checked all the way through to see if all words were legitimate just in case one or more words were legitimate, but not the whole message, as one would expect from a random key attempt. It would then probably need to be placed in a queue for a final check by a human to make sure it indeed made sense, as I have yet to see a grammar checker accurate enough to trust. Then it would have to have been submitted to verify that the correct key had indeed been discovered (as was done in reality). More steps, but the end result would have been the same IMHO. --- Stephen Haffly hafflys@primenet.com Homepage: www.primenet.com/~hafflys Team OS/2, Team GEOS OS/2 and Geoworks Ensemble - What a combo! From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 19:04:07 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA23707 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:04:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA23702 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:04:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from friley72-temp.res.iastate.edu(129.186.78.72) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023700; Wed, 2 Jul 97 19:03:39 -0400 Received: from localhost (vorlon@localhost) by cozad.dodds.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA07065 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:12:53 -0500 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:12:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Langasek To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Plaintext In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Trent Piepho wrote: > On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Timothy C. Hagman wrote: > > Nelson Minar penned, off the top of the head: > > > entropy to prevent analysis on the plaintext. What do you do in that > > > circumstance? > > > > Find the holder of the passphrase, point a gun at him or her, and > > demand it. Cheap, effective, and nearly always yields results. > > (And most major governments can afford guns ;) > > The gun isn't even necessary. Just call them up and say you're from net ops > or something. All this talk about attacking cryptographic algorithms is kind > of silly, since the weak link by far is people. It would have been much > faster to brute force open the desk at RSA where someone wrote the key down. True enough, but while it might even have gotten someone the prize money (time to solve: 15 seconds, equipment used: one crowbar), it wouldn't have been nearly as useful from a political perspective. :) -Steve Langasek -doink- From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 19:40:38 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA23884 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:40:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA23879 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:40:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown(209.70.16.2) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023877; Wed, 2 Jul 97 19:40:34 -0400 Received: (from achurch@localhost) by Bahamut.dragonfire.net (8.8.5/8.7.5) id TAA22652; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:49:46 -0400 Message-Id: <199707022349.TAA22652@Bahamut.dragonfire.net> From: achurch@dragonfire.net (Andy Church) To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Plaintext Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 19:49:45 EDT X-Mailer: MMail v4.61 Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk >Now... data that is multiply encrypted offers a great deal more protection, >I imagine... once you find the correct key for the outermost later of >encryption, the data you have is still encrypted. I don't profess to know a >lot about encryption, but I would imagine that the encrypted data >underneath might not be detectable as the proper data. There's not really much difference between doing that and doing a single encryption with a longer key. In the former case, you just run through each key of each encryption level, doing all of them at once: if (0 == memcmp(known_header, decrypt(decrypt(cipher, key1), key2), len)... Of course, the other thing all this assumes is that you know the encryption algorithm. If someone RC5's their data, then exclusive-or's every byte with 0x3B, you can try every RC5 key possible and you're still not going to decrypt the message successfully, even though the second algorithm is hardly "encryption" at all. Even if the exclusive-or was done first, it still would be considerably more difficult to know that you'd found what you were looking for. And there are so many different things you can do to data that don't have to be cryptographically sound that this sort of "security through obscurity" works when combined with a real encryption algorithm. Again, of course, you do have to discount the "hold a gun to his head" decryption method... ;) --Andy Church | If Bell Atlantic really is the heart achurch@dragonfire.net | of communication, then it desperately www.dragonfire.net/~achurch/ | needs a quadruple bypass. From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 19:55:08 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA23957 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA23952 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:55:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ha1.ntr.net(206.112.0.10) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023947; Wed, 2 Jul 97 19:54:38 -0400 Received: from ozone (rmtA047.ntr.net [206.112.4.47]) by ha1.ntr.net (NTR*NET 2.1.0) with SMTP id UAA25947; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 20:03:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 20:02:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Dickens X-Sender: cdickens@ozone To: Stephen Langasek cc: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Plaintext In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Stephen Langasek wrote: > On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Trent Piepho wrote: > > > On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Timothy C. Hagman wrote: > > > Nelson Minar penned, off the top of the head: > > > > entropy to prevent analysis on the plaintext. What do you do in that > > > > circumstance? > > > > > > Find the holder of the passphrase, point a gun at him or her, and > > > demand it. Cheap, effective, and nearly always yields results. > > > (And most major governments can afford guns ;) > > > > The gun isn't even necessary. Just call them up and say you're from net ops > > or something. All this talk about attacking cryptographic algorithms is kind > > of silly, since the weak link by far is people. It would have been much > > faster to brute force open the desk at RSA where someone wrote the key down. > > True enough, but while it might even have gotten someone the prize money > (time to solve: 15 seconds, equipment used: one crowbar), it wouldn't have > been nearly as useful from a political perspective. :) Not necessarily... 8-) Unless RSA wanted to look like their facility was vulnerable, wouldn't tell anyone, then the user could simply drop a hint in Rocke's mailbox of which keyblock section to dish out next to receive the winning prize right away. CRACK RC5 NOW!!! http://rc5.distributed.net/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Christopher Dickens - cdickens@ntr.net - SGI O2 Powered!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Copyright (c) 1997 by Christopher Dickens. All Rights Reserved. NOTE: Everything disclosed is the sole opinion of Christopher Dickens and in no way reflects the views or opinions, either in whole or part, of NTR.NET Corporation or any of it's affiliates. From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 22:17:40 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA24378 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:17:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA24372 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:17:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown(209.70.16.2) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma024370; Wed, 2 Jul 97 22:17:35 -0400 Received: (from achurch@localhost) by Bahamut.dragonfire.net (8.8.5/8.7.5) id WAA02515; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:26:47 -0400 Message-Id: <199707030226.WAA02515@Bahamut.dragonfire.net> From: achurch@dragonfire.net (Andy Church) To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Plaintext Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 22:26:43 EDT X-Mailer: MMail v4.61 Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk > The gun isn't even necessary. Just call them up and say you're from net ops > or something. All this talk about attacking cryptographic algorithms is kind > of silly, since the weak link by far is people. It would have been much > faster to brute force open the desk at RSA where someone wrote the key down. Except that there was no such desk. Assuming RSA was telling the truth, the keys were generated randomly by computer and never stored anywhere. They had the _plaintext_ so they could check whether a solution was right, but that alone wouldn't have gotten you the prize. --Andy Church | If Bell Atlantic really is the heart achurch@dragonfire.net | of communication, then it desperately www.dragonfire.net/~achurch/ | needs a quadruple bypass. From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 22:34:41 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA24431 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:34:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA24426 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:34:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown(204.252.20.9) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma024424; Wed, 2 Jul 97 22:34:19 -0400 Received: (from sigma@localhost) by ishmael.nmh.northfield.ma.us (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA01592; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:46:32 -0400 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:46:32 -0400 From: "Seth D. Schoen" Message-Id: <199707030246.WAA01592@ishmael.nmh.northfield.ma.us> To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com, greg@ou.edu Subject: Re: Plaintext Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk > data that is multiply encrypted offers a great deal more protection, > I imagine ... once you find the correct key for the outmermost layer of > encryption, the data you have is still encrypted ... True, and that's why you can't break 3DES in only three times as long as DES. It would take many times as long by brute force. If you could identify encrypted cipertexts as "correct", you could just break the outer cipher by brute force, then the next cipher by brute force, and so on. So three applications of 56-bit RC5 would be crackable in three times as long as a single RC5. If, as in the real world, you can't necessarily tell when you've found the decryption of any layer but the last layer, breaking a triple 56-bit RC5 by brute force will take you (2^56)^2, rather than 3, times as long as breaking a single 56-bit RC5 also by brute force. :-) -- Nothing is more dangerous for man's private morality than the habit of commanding. The best man, the most intelligent, disinterested, generous, pure, will infallibly and always be spoiled at this trade. -- Mikhail A. Bakunin (thanks to Rabbi Albert Axelrad) From owner-deschall-announce Wed Jul 2 23:08:12 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA24509 for deschall-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 23:08:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA24502 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 23:08:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from eliot213.wuh.wustl.edu(128.252.105.213) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma024498; Wed, 2 Jul 97 23:08:02 -0400 Received: from eliot213.wuh.wustl.edu (ejeffrey@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eliot213.wuh.wustl.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA13530 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:17:15 -0500 Message-Id: <199707030317.WAA13530@eliot213.wuh.wustl.edu> Reply-To: erjeffre@artsci.wustl.edu To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Plaintext In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Jul 1997 22:46:32 EDT." <199707030246.WAA01592@ishmael.nmh.northfield.ma.us> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 22:17:15 -0500 From: Evan Jeffrey Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk >If, as in the real world, you can't necessarily tell when you've found >the decryption of any layer but the last layer, breaking a triple 56-bit >RC5 by brute force will take you (2^56)^2, rather than 3, times as long >as breaking a single 56-bit RC5 also by brute force. :-) except that many triple DES implementations use the same key for the first and third encryption. So it is really "double DES + some an extra encryption to make it look noisy" As for triple RC5, I don't know why one would do that, since the RC5 algorithm is parameterized to allow key sizes of up to 128 bits already. === Evan Jeffrey erjeffre@artsci.wustl.edu The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. From owner-deschall-announce Thu Jul 3 09:26:45 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA26805 for deschall-outgoing; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:26:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA26800 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:26:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from f31.hotmail.com(207.82.250.42) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma026798; Thu, 3 Jul 97 09:26:14 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by f31.hotmail.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA12634; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 06:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707031335.GAA12634@f31.hotmail.com> Received: from 206.83.78.35 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 03 Jul 1997 06:35:23 PDT X-Originating-IP: [206.83.78.35] From: "Randy Weems" To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Plaintext Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 06:35:23 PDT Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk >...All this talk about attacking cryptographic >algorithms is kind of silly, since the weak link by far is people. >It would have been much faster to brute force open the desk at RSA >where someone wrote the key down. Nope, wouldn't have worked. RSA chose a random key, encrypted the message, and threw the key away. It wasn't written down or permanently stored anywhere. If you had broken into RSA's facilities, the best you could have done was get the rest of the plaintext, not the key. The correct key was verified by seeing if it would properly decrypt the cyphertext to the plaintext (or encrypt the plaintext to the cyphertext). --------------------------------------- Randy Weems mailto:rweems@hotmail.com http://www.concentric.net/~Mithran/ _______________________________________________________ Get Private Web-Based Email Free http://www.hotmail.com From owner-deschall-announce Thu Jul 3 09:29:44 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA26823 for deschall-outgoing; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:29:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA26818 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:29:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sparc.isl.net(199.3.25.3) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma026816; Thu, 3 Jul 97 09:29:38 -0400 Received: from Kosh (ppp-01.isl.net [199.3.25.50]) by sparc.isl.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA23623 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:34:18 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33BC540D.6672E6FB@sparc.isl.net> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 20:38:21 -0500 From: Leo Schmidt X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.29 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Key server still running? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Greetings all. After we (Deschall) had found the key, Rocke had said something to the effect that he'd leave the keyserver running to fill in some space around the key. Well, I've finally decided to move onto an RC5 effort and noticed that my des client was still happily crunching away at keyblocks. How much more crunching needs be done? I'd be willing to run it for a bit longer if that would help. How many clients are still crunching DES keyspace? What kind of keyrate is being had for this "cleanup" phase? How much longer will the web site stay up? I'd like to grab a few things off of it soon as a momento(sp) of my contributions. From owner-deschall-announce Thu Jul 3 10:11:45 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA27047 for deschall-outgoing; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 10:11:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA27042 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 10:11:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lucifer.testlab.orst.edu(128.193.78.11) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma027040; Thu, 3 Jul 97 10:11:34 -0400 Received: by lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 07:26:32 -0700 Message-ID: <71846B925036CF11BD6D00C0D15709290BF75A@lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU> From: Adam Haberlach To: "'deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com'" Subject: RE: Plaintext Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 07:26:29 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- - -----Original Message----- From: Greg Trotter [SMTP:greg@ou.edu] Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 1997 3:15 PM To: Thompson, Christopher; 'deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com' Subject: Re: Plaintext >At 3:38 PM -0500 7/2/97, Thompson, Christopher wrote: >>If we hadn't have known _anything_ about the plain text of the >>DES-encrypted message, we wouldn't have been able to decrypt >it, even >>using brute force. Is this correct? >Right. As others have pointed out, however, someone trying to >crack >encrypted data will probably have some idea as to what's >inside. >Now... data that is multiply encrypted offers a great deal more >protection, >I imagine... once you find the correct key for the outermost >later of >encryption, the data you have is still encrypted. I don't >profess to know a >lot about encryption, but I would imagine that the encrypted >data >underneath might not be detectable as the proper data. Unless you decrypt it and find that it says: - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At the top... - --- Adam Haberlach http://www.testlab.orst.edu/~haberlaa Free Lottery Tickets! Odds: 1/72,000,000,000,000 http://rc5.distributed.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBM7p+7BSmwqZasiJdAQElywQAm8aTekm0ALiNOFRvVV/eCDa/iayssYjg XB5AP0Kc+BOg4NYfDmKSWDtOzJw/tI2jD4UfYWiw/gHJ9GIOluPzJmLPVWf/4f4l tZ/bgYeSK1XEh+OLaB1V+kUpHpNqFq+NrOdDdhj52OJ8Mq4LUJPeY22Sn20tnF8G jOZJTmujfak= =fJg5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-deschall-announce Sun Jul 6 22:39:03 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA12710 for deschall-outgoing; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 22:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA12705 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 22:39:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lucifer.testlab.orst.edu(128.193.78.11) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma012703; Sun, 6 Jul 97 22:39:00 -0400 Received: by lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 19:54:28 -0700 Message-ID: <71846B925036CF11BD6D00C0D15709290BF75B@lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU> From: Adam Haberlach To: "'deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com'" Subject: Of T-shirts, Web Sites, and production... Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 19:54:25 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I have collected the e-mail addresses and suggestions of more then 50 people who are interested in T-shirts. If you are interested, please visit the web page at http://www.engr.orst.edu/~haberlad/desch/tshirt.html I don't know if I made it clear in the web page, but I am not producing a T-shirt. I am merely conducting a poll to see how many people (and more important, WHICH people) are interested. I did this rather then try and filter through 2000 messages on the mailing list looking for people who were interested. And because it made more sense to do it via a specific CGI script. We now know who is interested in BUYING a shirt. This is good. The next question is: Who is interested in making and selling a shirt? I know of at least one serious effort. If someone will E-mail me the options and information, I will coalate these and figure out what's up. I will also release the list of names, email addresses, and suggestions to anyone who is producing shirts, so they may get in contact with avid shirt-buyers in order to distribute specifics for the offer, gather mailing/billing info, etc... (and I may not even hold out for a free shirt for being the first person to organize the shirt-creation effort!) - --- Adam Haberlach http://www.testlab.orst.edu/~haberlaa Free Lottery Tickets! Odds: 1/72,000,000,000,000 http://rc5.distributed.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBM7/t8RSmwqZasiJdAQGo2QQApU3oRIFs+0z0Ow8CIhNtg+DOJVenH810 dSmVcDw8pmACqFQ9HAGGOh92zwmZRAO74b4tcHCBBkBoZyY3NCZKgVEdQmiUZwMr eDNJHqrwd1wNQSN/rJf3lQZdpz3KdaarstXGk05cRG00uG9PrISoYvfz8kX5ezhG CUws/2a43LY= =3g9E -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-deschall-announce Sun Jul 6 23:00:34 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA12779 for deschall-outgoing; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:00:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA12774 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:00:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.jfku.edu(204.161.52.10) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma012772; Sun, 6 Jul 97 23:00:02 -0400 Received: by jfku.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA00605; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 20:09:11 -0700 Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 20:09:11 -0700 Message-Id: <9707070309.AA00605@jfku.edu> To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com, deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com, deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com, deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Of T-shirts, Web Sites, and production... In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Adam Haberlach ' dated: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 19:54:25 -0700 From: "Karl J. Runge" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk On Sun, 6 Jul 1997, Adam Haberlach wrote: > The next question is: Who is interested in making and selling > a shirt? I know of at least one serious effort. If someone > will E-mail me the options and information, I will coalate these > and figure out what's up. I will buy *any* DES shirt (short of a guy with magic marker asking $30). If there has to be some number n > 1 of shirts produced to make people happy, I promise to buy one of each! I hope we can move on this before interest peters out. Karl From owner-deschall-announce Sun Jul 6 23:33:34 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA12843 for deschall-outgoing; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:33:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA12838 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:33:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chatlink.com(205.139.105.61) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma012836; Sun, 6 Jul 97 23:33:15 -0400 Received: from cl5-p7 (cl5-p7.chatlink.com [205.139.105.166]) by chatlink.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA02914 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 20:40:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 20:42:08 -0400 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: "Andrew James Alan Welty" Subject: Re: Of T-shirts, Web Sites, and production... Message-Id: <868236128-0-andrew@chatlink.com> X-Mailer: IBM OS/2 Internet Mail Client Support for Lotus Notes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Id: <868236128-1-andrew@chatlink.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk > I will buy *any* DES shirt (short of a guy with magic marker asking $30). How about a guy with two magic markers asking $60.00? From owner-deschall-announce Mon Jul 7 00:19:49 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA13230 for deschall-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:19:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA13225 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:19:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from serv1-2.jump.net(204.238.120.19) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma013223; Mon, 7 Jul 97 00:19:22 -0400 Received: from doh.jumpnet.com by serv1.jump.net (8.8.5/jump.1.11) id XAA03576; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:28:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707070428.XAA03576@serv1.jump.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Richard Hendricks" Organization: Motorola To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:27:41 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Of T-shirts, Web Sites, and production... Reply-to: hendric@jump.net X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42) Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk > Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 20:42:08 -0400 > To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com > From: "Andrew James Alan Welty" > Subject: Re: Of T-shirts, Web Sites, and production... > > > > > I will buy *any* DES shirt (short of a guy with magic marker asking $30). > > How about a guy with two magic markers asking $60.00? Now *that's* kinky... -- Richard Hendricks, Applications Engineer, Austin, Texas VGA Planets is not a game, it is a way of life. It is how, in this modern day and age, we can regress back to our roots Grind the bones of your enemies beneath your booted appendage. hendric@jump.net From owner-deschall-announce Mon Jul 7 17:48:36 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA19132 for deschall-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:48:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA19125 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:48:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ee.net(206.31.38.3) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma019116; Mon, 7 Jul 97 17:48:08 -0400 Received: from squirrel (modem23.columbus.ee.net [206.222.0.23]) by ee.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA08391; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:57:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970707182738.0069616c@ee.net> X-Sender: clydew@ee.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 18:27:38 -0400 To: "Karl J. Runge" From: Clyde Williamson Subject: Re: Of T-shirts, Web Sites, and production... Cc: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com In-Reply-To: <9707070309.AA00605@jfku.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >I will buy *any* DES shirt (short of a guy with magic marker asking $30). > >If there has to be some number n > 1 of shirts produced to make people >happy, I promise to buy one of each! I hope we can move on this before >interest peters out. Count me in with Karl. This was my first dist. computing effort and I WANT A SHIRT.:) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBM8FtR8eWPtttGqZhAQF1hwf8Ds6x8XUOp7bZ1tY/j7eqhx32w6lWzKM2 UW1r0aNpUk16b6LFwlS9K++ZiLpoDoeTIPpzpK7JNPIeKGHdfyG3TO1cDyiZA7SS 4DZWx7+nehypeMLRxxYSTgicepwiDPsFSy5VP4RhDaJ+1guPqVWL+1Uaf9HwTJEl d+sAkXRiu2oYyioXYdKn11js7CLnFz0pMxt74Y53tA9pQUAZ9MohOtRK00ciE1jS q2S/ng7zCgOA8imG6rrjkRTCfpnqTtCyAiB/ZI/PkMr0pzBNBb9n9Cb3GX+JwdqR RjwgGUcfQX+DUbLR88951w3CaWBFG/EXv/TvuQCe16vg5GrAy6YqHg== =Ax1H -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Clyde Williamson PGP Public Key found at http://users1.ee.net/clydew/pgp.htm We cracked DES!!! http://www.frii.com/~rcv/deschall.htm Member of "The Interhack Posse!! From owner-deschall-announce Mon Jul 7 19:02:38 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA19409 for deschall-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 19:02:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA19404 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 19:02:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown(207.211.120.4) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma019402; Mon, 7 Jul 97 19:02:18 -0400 Received: from [209.60.115.150] by why.net (SMTPD32-4.0) id A7491EA0108; Mon, 07 Jul 1997 18:10:01 -0500 Message-ID: <33C16987.7358@netcom.com> Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 18:11:19 -0400 From: Kelly French Organization: French Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Karl J. Runge" CC: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Of T-shirts, Web Sites, and production... References: <3.0.1.32.19970707182738.0069616c@ee.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Count me in on an XL shirt. Kelly French kfrench@why.net From owner-deschall-announce Mon Jul 7 21:43:11 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id VAA19817 for deschall-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:43:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id VAA19812 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cmu1.acs.cmu.edu(128.2.35.186) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma019809; Mon, 7 Jul 97 21:42:53 -0400 Received: from [128.2.120.125] (COCOWHEAT-34.SLIP.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.120.125]) by cmu1.acs.cmu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id VAA27951 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:51:46 -0400 X-Sender: dtw@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <71846B925036CF11BD6D00C0D15709290BF75B@lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:51:12 -0400 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: Duane T Williams Subject: Re: Of T-shirts, Web Sites, and production... Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Adam Haberlach wrote: > The next question is: Who is interested in making and selling >a shirt? I know of at least one serious effort. If someone >will E-mail me the options and information, I will coalate these >and figure out what's up. I imagine that overseeing the production and handling the distribution of a t-shirt to a potentially large group of people would require a significant effort. We have seen a promising design which many people have commented on, but I don't presume that the person who did the design was necessarily committing to producing and distributing that t-shirt. Has anyone actually decided to undertake the task? I was somewhat surprised to see Adam's announcement that only 50 people have expressed an interest on the web site he set up, when apparently thousands participated in the effort. Am I mistaken in thinking there were that many involved? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBM8GdSskGBiHpmyU1AQF3XQP+NILCn6x6u7J4rNa54kO+gAGTgYZdVmoN lugCzyk5zSQTgODK56tmNmC3UveU1YEnuEnim+JISlUer3FJa76ciw/EbTFph9QM eDTTkmYrp/9tE1jGvj0gYzGSrABfoxvjiWa+gy5+O0WmnS+Y5tovbTWoJOJ6zl6h ADFi3+aAj9w= =RaJt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-deschall-announce Mon Jul 7 22:35:12 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA19971 for deschall-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 22:35:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id WAA19966 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 22:35:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu(128.113.100.7) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma019964; Mon, 7 Jul 97 22:35:08 -0400 Received: from eclipse.its.rpi.edu (gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu [128.113.24.33]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA213366 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 22:44:23 -0400 Received: by eclipse.its.rpi.edu (NX5.67e/NX3.0M) id AA05443; Mon, 7 Jul 97 22:44:22 -0400 Message-Id: <9707080244.AA05443@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Garance A Drosehn Date: Mon, 7 Jul 97 22:44:20 -0400 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Of T-shirts, Web Sites, and production... References: Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk > We have seen a promising design which many people have commented > on, but I don't presume that the person who did the design was > necessarily committing to producing and distributing that t-shirt. > Has anyone actually decided to undertake the task? I haven't seen anyone say "I am doing it, get your orders in". > I was somewhat surprised to see Adam's announcement that only 50 > people have expressed an interest on the web site he set up, when > apparently thousands participated in the effort. Am I mistaken > in thinking there were that many involved? There are plenty involved, but many of them may be out-of-touch right now (now that the spring semester is over). Also, it would not surprise me if there are people on this list who would order shirts, but haven't signed up on Adam's web page. (initially I didn't either, because I was expecting a more-detailed web page). I would think that just at RPI we could find buyers for at least 10 T-shirts, and probably more like 20. So, I'm hoping someone is working on the task. Maybe it'd be easier to do if we also distribute some of the logistics of this project. I could buy all the T-shirts for RPI people, for instance, so the main-organizer would only have to send out one package instead of 20. Would that help? --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer (MIME & NeXTmail capable) Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA From owner-deschall-announce Mon Jul 7 23:55:14 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA20170 for deschall-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA20165 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:55:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lucifer.testlab.orst.edu(128.193.78.11) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma020160; Mon, 7 Jul 97 23:54:55 -0400 Received: by lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:10:27 -0700 Message-ID: <71846B925036CF11BD6D00C0D15709291274FA@lucifer.TestLab.ORST.EDU> From: Adam Haberlach To: "'Duane T Williams'" , deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: RE: Of T-shirts, Web Sites, and production... Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:10:25 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- - -----Original Message----- From: Duane T Williams [SMTP:duane@cmu.edu] Sent: Monday, July 07, 1997 6:51 PM To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Of T-shirts, Web Sites, and production... >I was somewhat surprised to see Adam's announcement that only >50 people >have expressed an interest on the web site he set up, when >apparently >thousands participated in the effort. Am I mistaken in >thinking there were >that many involved? Well, I count at least 77 e-mail addresses on the list, as of 970707 090241 PST. And I have just sent four e-mails telling people that they should show their interest by signing in on the script. NOT BY SENDING A MESSAGE TO THIS LIST. http://www.engr.orst.edu/~haberlad/desch - --- Adam Haberlach http://www.testlab.orst.edu/~haberlaa Free Lottery Tickets! Odds: 1/72,000,000,000,000 http://rc5.distributed.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBM8FaFxSmwqZasiJdAQGI5wP+NhhwMI5M8NviGDg885Rf+p/0pBLYaGCS blC+ruYQR+rQ81E+JRDrHJiGy5IIdN+J5oipsbH82f5WzArqu6pyEaB1LcBf3IUq qgNmC24flsLPs0et9iMTW/JvQr/csCszSpEBFI7A8k0YWG/Y9zTYRkqkCdOV7I2q LCSxCNRFqqQ= =k0pq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 00:07:44 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA20232 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:07:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA20227 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown(207.63.50.199) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma020225; Tue, 8 Jul 97 00:07:22 -0400 Received: from localhost (eyrich@localhost) by brain.hoopeston.k12.il.us (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id XAA13386 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:15:18 -0500 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:15:18 -0500 (CDT) From: "James F. Eyrich" To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk I would like to buy several t - shirts when they become avail. Would it not be better to find an established mail order t-shirt distributor to take care of orders. either through phone or web based orders. lets just agree on a design, i liked the first one (except for wrong spellings) ,and turn it over to a PRO. Then post the order info on the mailing list and the web sight. James Eyrich Network Admin Hoopeston Area Schools From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 00:41:14 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA20313 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:41:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA20308 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:41:13 -0400 (EDT) From: tmccabe@worldnet.att.net Received: from mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(204.127.131.34) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma020306; Tue, 8 Jul 97 00:41:10 -0400 Received: from chaotic ([207.116.55.166]) by mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA8292 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 04:50:22 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970708005005.006e4630@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> X-Sender: tmccabe@postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 00:50:05 -0400 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk http://www.pe.net/~spcltees/ good prices, it looks like they have some experience too... -Andrew At 04:15 AM 7/8/97 +0000, you wrote: >I would like to buy several t - shirts when they become avail. > >Would it not be better to find an established mail order t-shirt >distributor to take care of orders. either through phone or web based >orders. > >lets just agree on a design, i liked the first one (except for wrong >spellings) ,and turn it over to a PRO. Then post the order info on the >mailing list and the web sight. > >James Eyrich >Network Admin >Hoopeston Area Schools > > > From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 00:57:15 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA20385 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:57:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA20380 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:57:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown(128.172.89.118) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma020378; Tue, 8 Jul 97 00:57:03 -0400 Received: from [207.172.61.203] (rcm-as4s12.erols.com [207.172.61.203]) by ratboy.antennahead.com (8.8.0/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA31461; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:27:50 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:23:15 -0400 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: andrew meggs Subject: MacOS DES-->RC5 Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk For some of DESCHALL's MacOS users who might not have gone over to the RC5 effort because of the relative ugliness of the Mac RC5 client, hesitate no more. They now have a new Mac client based on none other than the DESCHALL client that we all came to know and hate, plus some features like graphing and 68k support that would have been in the next DESCHALL update if we hadn't won so soon, plus the great stuff in the v2 RC5 clients like the ability to suspend a block in progress and prefetch a large number of blocks from the server. So if you're got what it takes to do another round of code cracking, hop over to and choose your weapon, then spread the word wherever you can. I know this version is rather late in coming, but I was desperately in need of some time away from computers. p.s. -- I've heard stories that this new PowerMac client was much faster than their old one and that it ate UltraSparcs for breakfast and Alphas for lunch. But that's probably just a rumor. :) ____________________________________________________________________________ Andrew Meggs, content provider Antennahead Industries, Inc. From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 06:34:54 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id GAA21284 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 06:34:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id GAA21279 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 06:34:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail5.netcom.com(192.100.81.141) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma021277; Tue, 8 Jul 97 06:34:31 -0400 Received: from [208.13.202.12] (z013.llsys.com [207.41.48.13]) by mail5.netcom.com (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5/(NETCOM v1.01)) with ESMTP id DAA12571 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 03:43:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 06:43:52 -0400 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: Marc Farnum Rendino Subject: Re: MacOS DES-->RC5 [new Mac client!] Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk At 12:23 AM -0400 on 97/07/08, andrew meggs wrote: > a new Mac client based on none other than the DESCHALL > client that we all came to know THANKS! :) (Sorry to take up a slot, but you deserve it!) - Marc From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 09:44:46 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA22578 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA22573 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:44:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kelso.pclink.com(204.72.134.10) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma022571; Tue, 8 Jul 97 09:44:43 -0400 Received: from ume686jmathe01.sprintspectrum.com (pm2-04 [206.11.0.74]) by pclink.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA01417 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 08:53:54 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970708085548.006c0280@pclink.com> X-Sender: icepick@pclink.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 08:55:48 -0500 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: Icepick Subject: T-shirts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Okay, since everyone else is sitting on their asses, and I want a shirt, I've decided to have some backbone and take the initive. I sent the following message to Jim at http://www.pe.net/~spcltees/ >A group (50-200) of us are looking to get shirts to celebrate our >recent breaking of the RSA Cryptographic Contest. > >As you can imagine, they're is lots of talk, and lots of intrest, >but no one seems to want to do the work of making up a design and/ >or contacting someone to make up the shirts. > >Some one, I don't know who, made these mock-ups, which I've attached. >There are two files, frontandback.jpg, which contains the orginal >design, and newfront.jpg, which contains and improved front design. > > >What I'd like, so that I can have it for my own information, and >to forward it onto the other people intrested is three fold: > >1. Are these images (assuming we get the orginal design files) suitable >for imprinting? > >2. Can you take individual orders/payment and ship identical shirts >to multiple individuals? > >3. What kinda time/costs are we looking at? I've also contacted the author of the orginal design that is posted at: http://slosh.web2010.com/ I prefer the new design for the front, and would like to revamp the back. After all of the bickering about how many domains (if any) or what the format should be, I thought that something like: [heading design} 79 45 81 c0 a0 6e 40 a2 0b e3 33 c6 5c 93 b7 22 aa c2 61 27 ff 72 ac c6 03 68 60 2b 43 99 3c 31 (the encrypted text) 9f 36 e6 ae 82 0c 5d 3f a2 3b b4 91 e5 ef ee a3 b9 92 78 d4 af 0f 66 aa f5 17 e8 64 08 88 82 8d 67 ba fe bf 78 95 60 95 31 6a e2 98 78 1c 6a f7 0x8558891AB0C851B6 (the key) The secret message is: Strong cryptography makes the world a safer place. (the unencrypted text) Would be better. Any Photoshop or arttisic types out there? Whip up a design and send it in. no more no less no fear no need no height no depth too great godspeed Prove RC5 is weak! Break it! http://rc5.distributed.net/ From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 10:10:46 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA22861 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:10:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA22856 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:10:45 -0400 (EDT) From: dpush@mindspring.com Received: from brickbat8.mindspring.com(207.69.200.11) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma022854; Tue, 8 Jul 97 10:10:30 -0400 Received: from [38.27.94.150] (ip150.lansing2.mi.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.94.150]) by brickbat8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09054 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:19:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9707080244.AA05443@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:19:34 -0500 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: Of T-shirts, Web Sites, and production... Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk >Maybe it'd be easier to do if we also distribute some of the >logistics of this project. I could buy all the T-shirts for RPI >people, for instance, so the main-organizer would only have to send >out one package instead of 20. Would that help? Yes, it would. Adam's web site is cool and generous. However, somebody has to put up some cash to make these shirts. And, those missing the first ordering round will have to wait for a second, and the price could change, pissing people off in the process. I would be willing to pre-pay. Once we have a design and somebody to oversee the production, requests could be sent along with a money order. Groups, such as RPI could be organized as Garance has suggested, reducing the work load and shipping costs. If we do this COD, then the person who has put up the cash will wait weeks to see it again. Also, I would not be opposed to this person making a fair renumeration for the effort. It will be alot of work and headache. Is this unfair to those who have worked non-gratus(sp?) on the Deschall effort? DPush From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 11:35:48 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA23540 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:35:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA23531 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:35:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca(129.128.5.19) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023528; Tue, 8 Jul 97 11:35:45 -0400 Received: from maildrop.srv.ualberta.ca (pilsener.ucs.ualberta.ca [129.128.76.55]) by quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA24738; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:44:59 -0600 Received: from gpu3.srv.ualberta.ca (gpu3.srv.ualberta.ca [129.128.98.13]) by maildrop.srv.ualberta.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA25720; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:44:57 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:44:57 -0600 (MDT) From: Mark Malowany X-Sender: mmalowan@gpu3.srv.ualberta.ca To: andrew meggs cc: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Subject: Re: MacOS DES-->RC5 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk The new rc5 client rocks! Nifty graphing features are a nice addition to a much needed GUI overhaul (the speed increase and *intuitive* configuration settings are nice, too). kudos antennahead-ers! kudos andrew! cheers marko From owner-deschall-announce Tue Jul 8 14:20:52 1997 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA24703 for deschall-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:20:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA24692 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kelso.pclink.com(204.72.134.10) by gatekeeper.megasoft.com via smap (V2.0) id xma024686; Tue, 8 Jul 97 14:20:42 -0400 Received: from ume686jmathe01.sprintspectrum.com (pm2-21 [206.11.0.91]) by pclink.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA20114 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 13:29:58 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970708133149.006bb3dc@pclink.com> X-Sender: icepick@pclink.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 13:31:49 -0500 To: deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com From: Icepick Subject: More t-shirt info... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-deschall@gatekeeper.megasoft.com Precedence: bulk Okay gang, here's the reply I got from the t-shirt place. Now all we need is artwork. I'm a geek, not an artist. >Thank you for conta